How to depict 'earned' arrogance?

[pmmg]

I am not sure I have enough to add to this.

The Kitsune part makes me think this has some anime or manga origins. In that style, girls are often depicted as cute and confident and sexualized. Part of their charm is their shyness and naivety.

I think part of the problem would be, that as one grows with confidence, they tend to outgrow childish things. And so...for one very old, and very confident, the cute stuff ought to diminish, become less girlish, and more womanish.

Perhaps her cuteness in an act. Shy and demure when with friends, but when baddies how up, she is like 'Hold my purse, I got this."


Confidence is not really believing one has the best skill, but just believing you have enough skill to make the effort. And there are always bigger fish. No matter my skill, someone out there can pull the rug out from under me. People of age would know that. In a world where the number of tails gives a visible sign to this, it would be hard to imagine she thinks any of it is easy, and something she is certain to win.

But she can have enough skill to think can get herself out of bad situations, and possibly achieve an aim.

As John Wayne said, It ain't bragging if you can do it.

Might she have arrogance as a type of false bravado? She opens her mouth and talks the talk when it needs to be talked, and then hopes she has the skill to back it up.

I think that can be endearing, cause the reader knows she does not really think she can pull it off, but is going on into trouble anyway. And if she does it for noble reasons, we can kind of root for her.

Have you been writing this tale? If so, What is your impression of your own character in scenes where her arrogance shows? Is she truly arrogant, or over-confident, or is it true that she is really onto of the tree, and others just don't know it yet?>

What happens if she is humbled? If she was left crawling out of a smoking crater, would she feel arrogant?

 

[The Dark One]

I think what we might have here is a definitional problem.

I've known any number of young women who were arrogant because of their cuteness. ie "there is no disagreeing with me on any point because I'm cute."

I think they go together quite naturally.

 

[pmmg]

I think what we might have here is a definitional problem.

I've known any number of young women who were arrogant because of their cuteness. ie "there is no disagreeing with me on any point because I'm cute."

I think they go together quite naturally.

You don't think this behavior would be at all off putting?

 

[The Dark One]

You don't think this behavior would be at all off putting?

I find it very off-putting but plenty don't. The source of the arrogance is the learned behaviour that so many will do their bidding due to their cuteness.

I suspect it's where the ancient Greeks got the idea for Cyrens.

 

[pmmg]

It does not strike me that the OP'er is claiming the character is arrogant because of their cuteness, but that she is arrogant about a type of prowess, and happens to also be cute.

I am not sure how the OP'er means to mesh these together. The proof is in the pudding, so, i might be helpful if they posted samples.

Its interesting that you are disagreeing with Finch, while at the same time saying you find it 'very' off-putting. Since I know Finch is both part vampire, and much larger than 5'1 on some subjects, I'd be inclined to say she caught onto something.

In both cases, there is admission that it is some, and not all.

I would assert that cuteness can be a superpower, and perhaps more for women than for men, and certainly for anthropomorphized cats. But. I dont know that is what the OP'er is claiming. S/he said its 'earned' not gifted, and said, "I want her to appear to have no swagger/skill but when she actually backs it up you go 'oh, makes sense'" To me, that speaks to a skill they have worked on. Cuteness seems more of a natural gift. I suppose one can work at it.

So...I'd like the OP'er to more directly show what they mean, so I can comment more intelligently.

 

[The Dark One]

Agree with all that pmmg, it just turned into a little side debate.

And I wouldn't dare disagree with Finch.

 

[Finchbearer]

We can disagree…

I think demesnedenoir had a good point about perception. Two people can read the same book and get totally different things from it. And AELowan proved that it can be done with one of her characters. If I were to read a character that was supposed to be cute as a kitten but was also respected for their particular skill and was taken seriously - seeing would be believing. I’ve just never come across a character or person in real life like that.

I think when I think about women who have this sort of ‘earned arrogance’ who are also let’s say young and attractive, I think of Boudica, Cleopatra, mythological Goddesses, Joan of Arc etc. but none of those women are cute in my eyes.

Maybe it’s also a cultural thing, and maybe cute simply means ‘attractive’ in other cultures. But language is important. Get cute mixed up with sexy and you’re confusing your audience with your intentions. Get powerful confused with skilled and again, you’re not conveying what you really need to convey.

 

[The Dark One]

Maybe it’s also a cultural thing, and maybe cute simply means ‘attractive’ in other cultures. But language is important. Get cute mixed up with sexy and you’re confusing your audience with your intentions. Get powerful confused with skilled and again, you’re not conveying what you really need to convey.

Which is why I suggested we're talking about a definitional problem...

Cute is more than attractive though - it has implications of harmlessness, which is why it has the corollary of danger.

 

[Finchbearer]

Which is why I suggested we're talking about a definitional problem...

Cute is more than attractive though - it has implications of harmlessness, which is why it has the corollary of danger.

I understand what you’re saying, and I agree that cuteness can be a fun contrasting trait to dangerousness.

I still can’t see how a female character that is depicted as cute is going to have that ‘earned arrogance’ compared to a woman who isn’t cute though. I feel that the idea of cute is reductionist, particularly when applied to women. It can be a diminishing trait that belittles and undermines.

I think you mentioned sirens before? I feel like they are the exact opposite of cute. They are the age old idea that beautiful women are a man’s ruin. They could be depicted as in charge of their own sexuality, dangerously feminine, while they rip the hearts out of their prey and collect them as souvenirs. Ain’t nothing cute about that.

 

[The Dark One]

I think you mentioned sirens before? I feel like they are the exact opposite of cute. They are the age old idea that beautiful women are a man’s ruin. They could be depicted as in charge of their own sexuality, dangerously feminine, while they rip the hearts out of their prey and collect them as souvenirs. Ain’t nothing cute about that.

You've never heard of the femme fatale?

 

[Finchbearer]

You've never heard of the femme fatale?

Yes I have.

 

[skip.knox]

Strikes me there are at least two aspects to what you're wanting to accomplish. One is how you portray the character, the other is in how you portray the reaction to her from other characters. The character can go around just being who she is. The people around her can react in various ways. How the *reader* reacts is going to depend a good deal on how you portray those secondary characters. If it's a character I sympathize with, and that character says "boy she's sure arrogant" then I'm likely to agree. You can readily see variations on that.

As for portraying the character herself, that to comes in two flavors. There's how you speak of her in the narrative, and there's how she actually behaves. If there's internal dialog, then there's yet a third angle.

In short, you have many tools and approaches at your disposal. Have at it!

 

[Prince of Spires]

You've never heard of the femme fatale?

a femme fatale is pretty much the opposite to cute for me. Cute is pretty in an innocent, harmless way, behaving girlish. Femme fatal is seductive and deadly, pretty much the polar opposite of cute.

Now, both can be confident or arrogant. They just look very different doing it.

 

[The Dark One]

a femme fatale is pretty much the opposite to cute for me. Cute is pretty in an innocent, harmless way, behaving girlish. Femme fatal is seductive and deadly, pretty much the polar opposite of cute.

Now, both can be confident or arrogant. They just look very different doing it.

I think we're just in the realm of definitional disconnect.

I have personal experience in real life of women who many regarded as cute... but they were smiling assassins. Utterly ruthless.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

a femme fatale is pretty much the opposite to cute for me. Cute is pretty in an innocent, harmless way, behaving girlish. Femme fatal is seductive and deadly, pretty much the polar opposite of cute.

Now, both can be confident or arrogant. They just look very different doing it.

a femme fatale can be 'cute' but only when written well as part of their character, when it clashes with the femme fatal part of the character it goes poorly.
There are different 'grades' of that trope and all of them can be written in just about any direction. It's kind of why I avoid the trope myself, cause while I like it, I have seen it done poorly so many times (sometimes in a good way, mostly in a bad way) that I'm not confident I can write a good one yet lol

 

[Finchbearer]

Femme Fatale by The Velvet Underground is a great song.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

It does not strike me that the OP'er is claiming the character is arrogant because of their cuteness, but that she is arrogant about a type of prowess, and happens to also be cute.

I am not sure how the OP'er means to mesh these together. The proof is in the pudding, so, i might be helpful if they posted samples.

Its interesting that you are disagreeing with Finch, while at the same time saying you find it 'very' off-putting. Since I know Finch is both part vampire, and much larger than 5'1 on some subjects, I'd be inclined to say she caught onto something.

In both cases, there is admission that it is some, and not all.

I would assert that cuteness can be a superpower, and perhaps more for women than for men, and certainly for anthropomorphized cats. But. I dont know that is what the OP'er is claiming. S/he said its 'earned' not gifted, and said, "I want her to appear to have no swagger/skill but when she actually backs it up you go 'oh, makes sense'" To me, that speaks to a skill they have worked on. Cuteness seems more of a natural gift. I suppose one can work at it.

So...I'd like the OP'er to more directly show what they mean, so I can comment more intelligently.

What I'm (attempting to) accomplish, if I had to put it to an archetype, is more the confident lady spy (but not a femme fatale, she's absolutely the opposite of that) but there's still this childlike nature to her despite her maturity ( Most kitsune stop 'aging' personality wise once they reach a certain stage of their life, even after thousands of years their leader is one of the wisest/oldest individuals of their species, but she's physically and personality wise still a pre-teen.) I was thinking this side of her could be the 'cute' side of her, but when the chips are down and she needs to get serious, she has the confidence to back it up. Most of the time she's laid back and relaxed but when she's in 'work mode' that's a whole other side most people don't get to see.

I should point out that one of the last things they manage to steal is the Eiffel Tower. Cause she wanted their last heist to be something romantic (He suggested the mona lisa) but also something insane that only they could get away with.