I feel like I can come up with everything except a plot.

[UltimaBahamut93]

Something I have been thinking about a lot recently is how I come up with ideas for my stories. I can easily create characters and I am able to spend hours making interesting settings and worlds but I keep drawing up blank when I actually try to think of a plot. I feel like I make worlds that are empty and characters without any reason for the reader to care about them. I'll have all these ideas but then when it comes time for me to sit down and actually start planning the script I realize that I actually don't have a story, instead it seems like very loosely thought of ideas without a structure. I know where point A is and point Z, but have no idea how to get from A to Z, and because I prefer to have everything planned ahead it feels like such a daunting task of even getting started.

Does anyone else have that problem? While world building is something that is very fun and enjoyable, I know that a story must be more than that for the reader (and even the author) to care. Do you have any advice on how to go about solving this?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

The best bet is to dig into and study the structure of story. It is something people "know" without knowing from watching movies, where it is simplest to see 3-act structure because it isn't buried in subplots, but people don't always understand that they know it, heh heh. Formal study can make bells go off with plot. Pretty much everything is 3-act structure but some people dress it up to put different spins on it. Hero's Journey fits 3-act, but adds different elements, for instance.

Also from screenwriting, if you've got A & Z you can also start thinking in set-pieces, those big moments in movies (or series, like GoT) that inspire the writer/filmmaker and fill the muddy middle with something more than mud.

 

[Rexenm]

Prompts work. Sometimes, a work can be buried in ideas, and you just need that little prod. A good rule of thumb, is to leave your work, and return to it later, to see how it is going. Another measure, is to stare at the wall, and see if you can make patterns or shapes that are amusing. There are two truths, the beginning, and the end. There is no try, as Yoda would say.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

You say you've got good characters. That's where you find your plot. What do they want and why don't they have it? Conflict = Story. And from that we understand that Conflict is your story engine, but Character is how it's driven.

I'd get into your characters skins and find out how they'll drive their own story.

 

[Penpilot]

Studying structure can help a lot in planning. But for me, the real story starts with the character.

If you strip away everything, a story is basically someone with a problem that needs solving. And there's something or someone standing in the way. The problem and the obstacle can and will change over the course of the story, or there may be smaller sub-problems that need to be addressed first before the big problem gets solve, but the key is finding a character with a problem.

If a character doesn't have anything wrong in their lives, there's no reason for them to change, there's no reason for theme to act, and so, there's no story to be told.

Here's a video that might help you. For me, this is the basic foundation all characters, the character's wants and needs. If you know those two things, you can find the story. Because the story is basically about the things that are stopping your character from getting their wants and needs, and how your character overcomes them.

 

[The Dark One]

For me the plot is always born in the same moment I conceive of the main character(s). There will be some quirk of the MC that meshes with the key plot drivers.

If you've got strong characters... test them. What do they want? How can you let them get there after a whole bunch of ups and downs?

What is the worst thing that could happen to them right now? That's your next step. Make it happen and have them overcome and take a baby step towards their ultimate goal.

 

[Mad Swede]

A. E. Lowan mentioned the word "conflict", which in terms of writing stories means something the protagonist has to overcome to reach their goal - it needn't be a physical fight or even any form of enimity with another character. This usually leads into character development, as it follows that succeeding in their struggle to overcome that obstacle means the protagonist grows in some way.

So how does the obstacle and hence the conflict arise? Well, it's like The Dark One wrote. Your characters, what do they want and why? This is where the conflict begins - what is it that prevents them getting what they want? And this in itself is tied to their backstory - how did they get to where they are now? What is it in their past that has led to their current goals or desires, and does this past bring with it other obstacles?

If you've tied your character creation into your setting (which you should have done when creating the backstory) then you've also got any number of potential inciting events (the thing that kicks off the story) as well as a whole series of potential characters, events and incidents along the way. A simple inciting event can drag the protagonist into something bigger, which is where the conflict starts to deepen as the protagonist tries to solve the bigger problem and comes across further obstacles.

That's the theory(ish). Now sit back and think of one of your characters and the setting linked to them. Let your mind run riot. Suppose this character finds a dead body - it could fall out of a wardrobe in an inn or hotel, it could come floating down the river they're about to cross, or it could come crashing out of a window and onto the street in front of them. Now, what happens next?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Study Syd Field (Screenplay) and Robert McKee (Story), and conflict will be well covered along with most other things concerning character and plot.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Study Syd Field (Screenplay) and Robert McKee (Story), and conflict will be well covered along with most other things concerning character and plot.

Going to add to that Save the Cat! both of them, are really fantastic resources on story structure and use of conflict. https://www.amazon.com/Save-Cat-Last-Screenwriting-Youll-ebook/dp/B00340ESIS/

I do love the smell of conflict in the morning.

 

[pmmg]

Seems like others have this covered.

You need a conflict, and then apply structure to it.

If I take your Paladin in the video game world...

Obvious conflict, the video game world is not real, at first the paladin does not know, so he stands for it, later he finds it to be a lie, and stands against it.

In the first, there are people he believes bad that are contesting the lie, he conflicts with them. Later, there are some (one) who is trying to keep the Lie alive, and he contests with them.

If the conflict is first exposing and then defeating the lie, you have a lot of stage business to put in.

I would be begin with his conflicted nature, in trying to do good, he is siding with the bad guys. It does not sit well with him, but maybe he doesn't know why. Over time, he comes to question, and starts to pierce the veil. Maybe he has guilt over his past deeds and wants to atone, maybe he is captured, and is shown the light.

After, he sees the bad for what it is, he has much to overcome, which may include a loss of personal game powers, distrust among allies, and strong need to prove himself, and a need to live true to what he believes. And the Baddy, does not lose these things. So he is off on another quest to gain and overcome.

I can already see a novel in that. Why don't you?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Shoot the dog and save the cat... two H'Wood classics for manipulating the audience, heh heh.

John Wick has something in common with Josey Wales.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Shoot the dog and save the cat... two H'Wood classics for manipulating the audience, heh heh.

John Wick has something in common with Josey Wales.

I still need to see the John Wick movies. I hear that they do a great job with storytelling and the fights are spectacular... and Keanu Reeves needs to call me.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Study Syd Field (Screenplay) and Robert McKee (Story), and conflict will be well covered along with most other things concerning character and plot.

Just finished my second read through of Story by McKee. Was gonna say this!
So much good stuff in there.
I just started his book on characters... it's a lot. Really good stuff.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Just a suggestion from a pure pantster. Ignore the characters and the world build. Ignore the plot too. Start with a scene. You have a character - it doesn't matter who he or she is, and it doesn't matter where he or she is either. He's in a situation. My first book I had my main character hanging upside down on a rope tied between two skyscrapers. And I just went from there. Who was he? Where was he? Why was he there? I just asked the questions, found the answers I liked, And wrote. This won't work for plotters who have to know everything in advance. But it's sort of pantster 101.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Finchbearer]

I think I pretty much start with an idea for a plot. Otherwise I have a general theme I want to work with, along with a setting and go from there. So far my approach seems to all at once be a plotter, pantser, world builder and plot builder, and I go back and forth a lot to see what works. I’m still finding my way and that’s part of the fun.

As far as plot goes though, are there no books that you can think of that inspire you? I think I’ve unconsciously picked up on those familiar plot beats that *most* novels have, and that has certainly given me something to go off. If you’re not much of a reader the first thing I’d recommend is to go read some books! Find that rhythm. There are professional structures to work from too such as the 3 act structure that could give you a basic framework, and I also find that by constantly asking what my characters want, and how I can prevent them from getting it a good basic starting point for creating stakes and tension. Although I don’t think there always need to be high stakes and tension all the time unless that’s how you want your plot to roll.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Plenty of good advice here already.

To take it in a different direction, I'll add two points to consider.

The first is to ask yourself why you want to write a story at all. There's nothing wrong with simply world-building and dabbling with a few characters who could live in that world. Plenty of people enjoy that. So why do something else? Writing a novel is a lot of work. If your heart is not in it, then why bother instead of simply sticking to the fun stuff?

Now, the answer could be that you don't want to write a story, then do that. It's absolutely fine to do so. Plenty of people only worldbuild as a hobby. The other possibility could be that you want to write a novel because you want to show X to readers. Or you want to share Y with readers. If that's the case, then that's a starting point for your plot. Figure out what you need to tell that story or to evoke that emotion in the reader.

Another approach you could use is to take a paint by numbers approach. That is, take a default story structure, and just start filling in the blanks. It works something like this: A novel is about 75k words. A reasonable chapter length is about 2.5k words. Which means you need about 30 chapters.

Now, take the hero's journey template. In most models it has around 12 steps. Map those steps onto your chapters. Just write out a list. 1 is the ordinary world, 2 is the call to adventure, 3 is the refusal of the call, and so on. And just start coloring those chapters. You have a farm boy, show his ordinary world and that he's not completely satisfied with his life there. Something out of the ordinary happens, monsters appear, he buys a weird android in the market which carries a message from a space princess. And so on.

This should give you about half your chapters. Then, simply fill in the blanks for the other chapters.

Now, this might not give you the most unique, original story structure. But it will actually give you a solid basis for a story.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Keanu Reeves needs to call me.

I think he would make a great Etienne

 

[Finchbearer]

You have a farm boy, show his ordinary world and that he's not completely satisfied with his life there. Something out of the ordinary happens, monsters appear, he buys a weird android in the market which carries a message from a space princess. And so on.

That escalated quickly!

 

[pmmg]

Yeah...but that was a long time ago, and far far away.

 

[Finchbearer]

Yeah...but that was a long time ago, and far far away.

Wait…this has outed me as someone who is not a Star Wars fan. Wait…was it a Star Wars reference?