Looking for Pricing Information for Illustrations

[phillipsauthor]

Hello, artist types!

I have a question for you.

I definitely don't draw, but I have a friend who does. She's willing to draw some illustrations for a set of short stories I'm writing, and I want to pay her for this service. However, I don't know how much is reasonable. She's a college student, art minor, who doesn't generally do freelancing.

Given that, what would be a fair amount to charge for designing and drawing a set of four shield crests?

Thanks so much.

 

[Weaver]

I don't know that there's any kind of "standard" pay for this kind of thing; there wasn't when I was an art student. However, as a way to get a rough estimate, ask her how long she thinks it would take her to draw these. Figure about $20/hour (art is a skill, and skilled work of any kind ought to get at least that much), and go from there. (My own guess is that, depending on complexity, medium, etc., this job ought to be worth around $50, more or less.)

You could always ask her how much she'd like to get paid for it. If you feel that the amount she quotes is too low (we do often have difficulty asking for what we feel our work is worth, or even difficulty believing our work is worth any kind of 'real pay'), offer her more; I doubt she'll mind.

Something else you could do (research work on your part) is find out what professional illustrators would charge for the same kind of thing, and figure what the average rate is amongst them.

 

[jeracoo]

It really depends on her level of skill, some artists take 50 hours to create something that a more talented artist can create in 10. My personal experience is that higher level artists are cheaper and create better work.

How large and detailed are the crests? If highly detailed I'd probably say around $400.

 

[Nihal]

It really depends on her level of skill, some artists take 50 hours to create something that a more talented artist can create in 10. My personal experience is that higher level artists are cheaper and create better work.

How large and detailed are the crests? If highly detailed I'd probably say around $400.

I'm sorry, but "the better the artist cheaper the work"? Why on earth someone who trained more, studied more, invested more hours of his/her life on honing this skill would charge less? Painting is not "talent", it's a skill and it requires study and training as any other skill.

The better the artist, busier s/he will be and more expensive will be the work.

 

[jeracoo]

I'm sorry, but "the better the artist cheaper the work"? Why on earth someone who trained more, studied more, invested more hours of his/her life on honing this skill would charge less? Painting is not "talent", it's a skill and it requires study and training as any other skill.

The better the artist, busier s/he will be and more expensive will be the work.

If you're paying on a per hour basis, which rarely happens with art it's cheaper hiring a more experienced and talented artist. It's the same with any skill, if I want to hire someone to work as a scientist in my lab it's cheaper to hire the more experienced and expensive per hour employee than it is to hire someone that's inexperienced.

Now if you're paying for the art on a quote basis of course it's going to be cheaper to hire the inexperienced artist as they will work for around $1-3 an hour since the work will usually take them 5-10 times longer to complete, so 30-50 hours versus 6-10 hours.

 

[Nihal]

Again: You're not simply paying for the hours the professional took to create the artwork, you're paying for the hours he took to master the level of skill necessary to complete the job. You're paying for expertise. Also, law of supply and demand, ever heard about it? Increasing the price is the usual mechanism to filter out the excess of demand.

The solo fact the illustrator asks for less "because they're better and take less time now" shows how this illustrator is, in fact, not experienced. If you found someone fool enough to think in this way have fun exploiting the person but do not propagate this idea, for by no means it reflects how this industry works nor how a serious professional works. How could I know this, you wonder?

It's my area. You would guess I know a little thing or two about it.

You're giving bad advice to a starter. You're basically telling to a starter that the more time she spends getting better at her craft somehow less she'll be rewarded. You're also creating false expectations on our fellow forum members. I mean, if you want to test out your theory I could give you some names of badass illustrators and watch their reactions to your proposal and logical thinking, it'll surely be amusing.


No offense meant, I guess underestimation of my occupation is one of my pet peeves after years of absurd proposals. I might get a bit dry sometimes, heh.

 

[jeracoo]

It's just what I've found from hiring artists on deviantart, I've worked with Kerembeyit, Raydillon, Falynevarger, Haphazardmachine, Stungeon, Jesshavok, Booom, Oplan10, Mesozord, Nrekkvan, Eisart, Orangus, Alonzoemata, and of course the artist that created my book cover Mlappas. As well as a couple dozen less talented artists.

And in my experience it's cheaper for me to hire a pro than it is to hire a less talented artist. A talented artist usually charges me between $20-150USD for lines, $20-150USD for Flats and Colours and between $200-$700USD for lines, flats and colours for a well detailed piece. Now when I hire less talented artists yes the costs are less, usually around $100-200USD for a full piece though it's rarely commercial grade, hence it costs more as I then need to hire another artist.

I've only found 1 highly talented cheap artist on dA, though they're always booked out a month in advance and require complete payment upfront.

I still stand by what I've said, it's cheaper to hire a highly talented artist in the first place, they'll produce exactly what you want, though yes it may seem like a higher price though it's not really.

And no I'm not saying she won't be rewarded as much the more experienced she gets, the more experienced she gets the more jobs she can do, at a higher rate.

Example
Level E Artist can produce 1 work of E level art in 40 hours pay is $200/week $5/hour 1 works/week
Level A Artist can produce 1 work of A level art in 5 hours pay is $2000/week $50/hour 8 works/week
Level AAA(Highly Talented high renown) Artist can produce 1 work of AAA level in 20 hours pay is $8000/week

The only level AAA I've worked with is Kerembeyit and he's worth what he charges, though I could only afford concept sketches from him, not a full piece.

 

[Nihal]

I won't repeat everything I said. I won't say it sounds like a "genius" the person who goes by "Hey, I did it. I have the expertise and skill, so, now, as a reward to myself I'll start to work until I pass out to make the same money I did when I was a newbie.". (oops, I did.)

I'll just assume that whenever you become a successful writer you'll accept a smaller payment. Because, hey, you'll be "talented" by then and you'll be able to produce more work in less time. The better you are more books in a shorter time and for less you must produce. Sounds like the deal, uh? ;D

 

[Lord Ben]

I can, at $40 per hour and 15 years of experience, fix most computers quicker than some high school kid charging $10 an hour. Even if I charge more per hour for myself it's cheaper for the customer to have me do it.

It makes sense to me that it would work the same for two artists doing the same quality work. The one with the most experience will be more efficient and make a better hourly rate for himself.

My brother is somewhat talented as an artist. The stuff he did for art class in school and some D&D doodles are pretty good. But to draw a standard character he usually will spend several gaming sessions working on details, redoing bits, etc. So 10 hours into it he has a pretty decent drawing I wouldn't mind spending $100 on. But someone with far more talent and experience doing it more hours per week could take the same $100 and do it much quicker for a better hourly rate. Maybe even quick enough to charge only $80.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I had to raise my fee from $10/ hr. to $20/hr two years ago because I got so much faster I was no longer making money. So... it wasn't out of greed, it was out of fairness for my talents. If I think a dress is worth $200, then I need to charge $10/ hr. if it takes me 20 hours to sew it. If, however, I increased my skill, and it now only takes me 10 hours to sew it... am I only going to charge $100 for the dress? No way, it's worth double. SO I raised my prices. I've found most people are perfectly willing to pay me $20/ hr. So I don't feel greedy. Besides, the more I sew for other people, the less time I have to work on my own projects and my writing.

So... if you want another opinion... choose the most experienced person you can afford. I know a lot of people in my field that charge about the same as I do (for a garment, though I'm charging more per hour, because I work faster), and I can honestly say I'm the better deal. While loads of people can take a pattern and sew a garment together, I do design, tailoring, and draping. When you select me to make your costumes, you get the whole package, a person who can make all the patterns based off your crude sketch, someone who will make sure it fits like a glove and is flattering to your body, and someone who will advise about fabrics, care and cleaning, and garment design, to make sure you're getting the best possible garment for your money. That's the benefit of hiring the more experienced artist, someone with a proven track record and a portfolio of things you want to wear. Nothing is worse than commissioning a piece and being disappointed when the garment doesn't fit well or doesn't look like you expected it to look. What do you do? Tell the person to start over? Chalk it up to a learning experience? it's a toughy.

 

[Ankari]

Dollars per hour is only half of what you need to consider. Like Caged Maiden suggests, she knows how long something will take to make, and adjusts her price based on the final price to the customer that is fair. So, if an artist charges $5/hr, and another charges $50, which one is best for you? Ask for the time they think it will take to create the final product. If the first guy says 50 hours, and the second says 3, then go with the second. If they both say 20 hours, then go with the first.

When I commission an artist, we don't talk about hourly rates. It's all about the final price for the piece.

 

[Caged Maiden]

absolutely, Ankari. And, as someone who makes money on art, I just want to say that people who have good business ethics are worth their fees. For instance, if I mess something up (mis-measure, sew a sleeve on backwards, etc.) I eat that time. I do not keep the clock rolling while I fix my own mistake. And in one instance, I made a corset for a valued customer (she buys form me frequently, at least twice a year). She bought a plastic outdoor fabric that as soon as I cut into, it began unraveling and I had threads of plastic all over. It took me twice as long to fight with that fabric as I ordinarily would have, but I couldn't honestly charge her $250 for a corset I didn't think looked good (because of the terrible fbric choice). So, even though she was happy, I charged her what I thought was fair, $140. Even though I technically worked harder than that.

By asking questions, you will ensure you get a good deal for your money, and I think most semi-professional people (like me. I'm not costuming for the movies or anything, where I could be really demanding. I'm not world class, just pretty darn awesome, but totally a small business), will communicate with you and have the experience to make sure the deal is good.
Be wary of people who waffle... "I don't know how much it will be.... I don't have a portfolio, but I designed my high school yearbook cover... ETC.

If they can't show you work and tell you how much it would cost, run. I don't keep a portfolio of things I've made for other people, but I have two closets full of examples of my work I wear. When people ask me how much something will cost, I give them a ballpark as I see it. I try to explain that some choices will influence the price (especially little details), and that if they prefer to give me a range to shoot for, I'm happy to recommend fabrics and designs that will keep them within that range. Kinda like Progressive's "Name Your Price". I had a friend who commissioned a pair of pants. He wanted to pay $200, a fair price for Landsknecht trousers. So we began designing. Along the way, I kept his price in mind and made decisions where I could to trim my time.
So, he made one choice that was going to push me over the limit. I called him before I got to that point and explained. He gave me the go-ahead to keep working and accomplish the things he wanted. I reminded him I owed him $90 from a previous project we did together, so I applied that credit and in the end, the pants totaled $320, minus the $90 I owed him.

BUT... These are not simply a pretty pair of pants. My friend is a fencer and his clothing is high functioning. I designed and engineered a pair of pants that shows off a trim waist and swordfighter's backside. They will allow for the deepest lunge one can manage and not be stretched at the seams. The crotch seam is reinforced double to protect the seams that take the most wear, but I did it without making it bulky. Every single thing about this garment is tilored to a swordfighter's needs (both ego and physical) He tipped me ten dollars anyways, and commissioned another pair a few weeks later.

So.... I hope my story helps you find an artist you want to work with again and again. Incidentally... if you ever need costumes, I know a girl who does great work

I'll show you the pants, since I've talked so much about them (the yellow and black ones):

 

[Ankari]

That's awesome work, CG. And good advice.

 

[Nihal]

So... it's like I said here: You're paying for the expertise, not merely for the "hours".

Truth to be told, the price/hour is used by the professional to estimate an initial quote. This value is the result of the questions "How much I need to make a living? How much I wish to earn each month? How much I wish to work? How much I invested to create this work*?"

This is to have an initial idea of how much you should charge, it's to avoid undercharging. Your experience nor the complexity of the work are being taken into consideration there, neither is your availability.

Ideally you should never mention the price/hour to a client. The reason is simple: Some clients just can't understand what expertise is. They'll try to bargain with the exact argument we read there, "But you're taking less hours to create, so I should pay less, right**?". So, to save yourself from a headache it's simpler to give your quote, a deadline and that's all.


*You still have to pay for the electricity, softwares, internet connection, hardware, pencil or whatever materials you use to create your work + related taxes you might need to pay. People rarely remember this little detail. Always include in your quotes a pre-calculated amount to cover these expenses or you might end paying to work.

**This is particularly amusing when it's a rush job–that job you'll have to complete in a nearly impossible deadline. Yes, some clients seriously believe they should pay less for rush jobs instead of the additional "urgency" charge. You're going to take less time, right? =P


***

You work is incredible, Caged Maiden! Thanks for joining the "don't be a starving artist" club, haha.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Another note about the pants... My friend wears the hell out of his clothes. Being hit with swords, stretching against seams... for his $320 (or $200 for the second, simpler pair), he's getting a garment that will stand the test of time and be good for longer than the cheap garments he was wearing before. Not only that, but they will look better, make him feel more confident, and overall prove to be a better investment. I know with drawings, that isn't exactly equatable, but...

Customer service is a sadly overlooked concern. When I get a car insurance agent calling me up, I tend to laugh at them when they offer to save me money. I tell them I'm not interested in how much they can save me. I have USAA and I'm in love with that company. They have my checking and savings accounts, my home mortgage, my car loan, my car and homeowner's insurance. If they could do anything more for me, I'd certainly let them. Why? Because their customer service is unmatched. When we made a home claim, they sent an agent right out, cut us a check, and went on their way (but not before giving us wonderful advice on how to use that money to the best of our ability). They offer finanfial advice, will help you do anything you want as far as future planning and investing, and even have knowledgeable agents standing by to answer questions without pressure to sell you a service.

I try to keep customer service in mind as I work. Sure, my friend came back to get a second pair of pants a few weeks later, but since people have seen him wearing them, I've picked up two more commissions because of it. I charged him a fair price, though it was much higher than a catalog, mass-produced garment would have been, but for the people who need specialized garments, I'm absolutely the best deal around. When people recognize that, they tend to jump all over their new source for the things they want at a fair price.

Sure, I'd love to work for a movie or museum. I think I could really do a great job. But it's making special garments for everyday people that really floats my boat. I make people feel awesome. That's in part, what I sell: confidence, allure, beauty. I make recommendations to people who maybe don't know what they want. I tell them what I see and listen to their needs and wants. I work with them to produce a garment that makes them feel awesome and flatters their body. Anyone can cut out a pattern and stitch some fabric together. It's in my seventeen years of working with fabric, altering patterns, drafting patterns from images in my mind, and draping different kinds of fabrics, that I can deliver truly gorgeous garments to people who don't know a thing about sewing. I know I'm one of a kind, and wish I could charge what I'm worth, but I do this because I love it and it keeps me young. Sometimes, you get a great opportunity to swap with another artist. Just recently, one of my friends decided he wanted a whole Landsknecht outfit (after he saw the pants and wanted them...) so I traded him. He's making me a shiavona (an italian cage hilt sword) and companion dagger for fencing, in exchange for the outfit (carrying a price tag of $800 or so). But I can do trades like that because I have a product people want. So, even if I can't get the $800 from someone, I can get their art (something I couldn't afford on a whim, either).

SO anyways, if you know anyone who needs clothing or costumes, my contact information and website are all over this forum. I'm the best around and I certainly work to please my clients. If anyone needs clothing sketches for their books or wants a garment from their characters made from a sketch, I can do that too. Or, I can just draft the patterns, so You can make your own garments. I think in the art world, we all support one another. Let me know how I can help to promote you, too.