Norse Mythology - Need Help with ReCreating Norse Gods

[Shockley]

I could argue Tyr since he was the god of war, but many of the Aesir and Vanir were formidable warriors.

I hear the 'Tyr is a god of war' thing all the time, but I've never come across any actual sources that point to him having that role. He was, fundamentally, a god of government (specifically over the administrative bodies like the Althing, though this is a role he shares with Forsetti) and justice, though he seemed to have some role in determining whether one received their fair share of recognition and glory.

The only idea, in my mind, that actually associates Tyr with war is the idea of the Romans that he was the God Mars. That said, I don't think that comes from him having the portfolio of war. Mars was not (as Ares was) a 'stupid' god - he was intelligent, shrewd, and above all else, was seen as the father of the Roman people and the preserver of internal peace (through readiness for war). In that sense, he does have a lot of similarities with Tyr.

As to who the proper war god is, that is a complex question. Odin certainly had some authority over matters of war, as did Freyr and Freyja (all of the Vanir, to some extent, seem to have some special relationship with war). Personal combat, as distinct from war, would have encouraged one to follow a god like Thor or Magni. If one was pursuing a war of vengeance or a personal vendetta, someone like Vidar or Vali would have been appealing. Battles on the sea would have brought one to Aegir or Njord (more likely Aegir, as he was the more violent).

 

[Filk]

The Masks of Odin is a great book; I forget who wrote it though. It's a work of comparative theology, but you also get a lot of primary source material as well to really give you a sense of the thing and not just someone's interpretation of it.

Also, I would suggest the primary sources already mentioned and I do believe there are more e.g. Njal's Saga etc.

Norse mythology is truly fascinating and directly correlates to Teutonic or Germanic mythology as well. A great number of Vikings, upon being inundated with missionaries, simply added Jesus Christ to their pantheon as another god. Also, do not misjudge and assume all Vikings are violent barbarians; they were for the most part farmers and traders.

 

[Shockley]

Also, do not misjudge and assume all Vikings are violent barbarians; they were for the most part farmers and traders.

Having focused all of my studies on the Germanic people, this is something I always like to point out: While a great majority of the Norse were traders and not raiders, the Norse also had no concept of the idea that raiding and trading were distinct activities. What they did was based entirely on what was the most convenient.

 

[Kahle]

Its easier to understand the different roles of the gods if you look into the creation stories for both Norse and Greek. The Norse have a very distinct layout for their worlds, with the gods, giants, humans, and dead each inhabiting their own plane of existence-with the world tree connecting them all, and only the gods frequently crossing into different realms. Their view of the world was cyclic, with death leading to rebirth in a different form-warriors who died in battle went to Valhalla to await Ragnarok, the frost giant Ymr was broken apart to form the sun, moon, heavens, clouds, and earth, and the resurrection of Haldr and Baldr after Ragnarok along with two humans. Large-scale conflict, of course, held the center stage. Usually the Aesir fought the giants, but there was also a god on god war when the Aesir fought the Vanir-the lesser gods. This, along with the dwarves forging the tools of the gods, is a parallel between the Greek Titanomachy, Gigantomachy-titan and giant wars respectively-and the cyclops forging the weapons of the gods of Olympus.

In regards to the Greek version of the genesis of the world, with the birth of the titans from Chaos, there are numerous connections to the heavens and domains of the world. A titan governs each realm-Oranos as father sky, Gaia as mother earth, Hyperion driving the sun's chariot, and Chronos governing time. While the titans are conveyed as greater mysteries, the Olympians are modeled after humans in their faults and tempers. Different cultures made different connections to their gods-the Norse made them the epitome of their culture, the Greeks made their Olympians as eternal humans with power over teh elements, and the Egyptians the turning and perpetuity of the cosmos.

As with most mythology, remember that there is always a lesson or explanation for each story. These cultures had their gods instead of modern science to reveal the why and hows of the world around them.

 

[Shockley]

A great post, Kahle, but I feel like I have an obligation to point some things out:

Norse have a very distinct layout for their worlds, with the gods, giants, humans, and dead each inhabiting their own plane of existence-with the world tree connecting them all, and only the gods frequently crossing into different realms.

This is, of course, open to interpretation, and it's probably accurate to say that the Norse had a hybrid view of these things. Midgard was certainly separate from Valhalla, but things get a little murkier when you look into where Jotunheim was supposed to be, where Alfheim was, etc. Just for example, it's very clear that the Norse though Jotnar and Alfar could interact with humans and the gods in equal measure, and there's at least one myth where a man ascended to Valhalla by crossing the rainbow bridge.

It's obvious to some extent that the Norse thought Jotunheim was much closer than the other worlds, which is why there are so many regions named after Jotuns (for example, the Jotunheim mountains). This is correlated to the idea that we translate 'jotnar' into 'giant' for convenience - a more literal translation would look like 'a force of chaos' or 'a chaotic consuming force.' So any area that was wild or dangerous could conceivably by Jotunheim. It seems likely that they would have had a similar concept of Alfheim - a place of safer, but still uncivilized, wilds.

So you have the broader view of these being different realms of existence, but another aspect where it might just be that country just out of reach.

Their view of the world was cyclic, with death leading to rebirth in a different form-warriors who died in battle went to Valhalla to await Ragnarok, the frost giant Ymr was broken apart to form the sun, moon, heavens, clouds, and earth, and the resurrection of Haldr and Baldr after Ragnarok along with two humans.

Germanic Paganism was broken right at the moment when it entered the kind of evolution that allowed Judaism, Hinduism, etc. to survive to the modern day. So, interestingly enough, we have some very short strands of thought that pointed to a growing belief in physical reincarnation (within the family line) as well. This was not one soul being born into one body, but the collective soul of that family line manifesting in physical form. So yes, reincarnation and cyclical thought were important.

Usually the Aesir fought the giants, but there was also a god on god war when the Aesir fought the Vanir-the lesser gods.

The Vanir were not 'lesser' gods. They were simply 'different' gods. The myths point to the idea that the Norse believed there were multiple tribes of gods, one of which was their preferred Aesir and another of which was the Vanir. The introduction of Freyr and Freyja (and Freyr was by far the most popular god on the continent and second only to Thor in Iceland) takes on the mythic form of a marriage alliance between the Vanir. Interestingly enough, there is a Aes (Hoenir) who is sent to Vanaheim who just leaves Nordic myth at that point. Even more to the point, Njord is to return to the Vanir at the end of Ragnarok, so they viewed the Vanir as being mostly immune to the world (of the Norse, that is) ending.