Plz help me come up with an antagonist for my story

[pmmg]

Just looking up the fate of Vasti, while the bible does not say, there are jewish stories that suggest she was beheaded by the king and suffered a worse fate than exile.

 

[Trailofstardust]

Everyone knows that anyone who could be seen as legitimate on the throne is a threat and very often they are quietly removed.

What if Vashti had a son?

She doesn't, and I don't know how having a son would change anything. Besides the fact that Vashti is so young at the beginning of her story, when she loses her position, that such a thing would be creepy to a YA audience.

Are you saying that Vashti could be seen as a legitimate contender for the throne?

As for threats to the throne being removed, in the real Achaemenid persia which Esther is supposed to take place, the rebel Megabyzus attempted to rebel against the king, but was pardoned and lived out his life quietly.

And of course, regardless of what traditional jewish sources say, for Vashti to be a protagonist in my story she needs survive after refusing the king. And these traditional sources seem to contradict the text, which states that she was banned from ever entering the king's presence. For that to be necessary she needs to be alive.

 

[pmmg]

I see why you are having trouble finding a antagonist... You are lacking a ruthless world type of mind.

The fact that other sources say she was beheaded indicates that it was not a far away thought that maybe it might be best is she was not around. The king would have thought this, and if not, his advisors would have had the thought. If she had a son, he would be a claimant to the throne. She does not have to have a son, just the threat that she could might cause confusion. No need for a strange son to turn up and start causing trouble.

Suppose the king did not want to know, but an advisor wanted her quietly removed. He sends a messenger to the king of whatever land she was banished to and suggests that it would be really good, and win favor with his king, if she disappeared. Instant trouble for Vashti, and she does not have to know why.

Anyway...seems you want a different answer.

 

[pmmg]

Suppose the advisor finds out she wants revenge and had recourse to a djinn?

 

[Trailofstardust]

I see why you are having trouble finding a antagonist... You are lacking a ruthless world type of mind.

The fact that other sources say she was beheaded indicates that it was not a far away thought that maybe it might be best is she was not around. The king would have thought this, and if not, his advisors would have had the thought. If she had a son, he would be a claimant to the throne. She does not have to have a son, just the threat that she could might cause confusion. No need for a strange son to turn up and start causing trouble.

Suppose the king did not want to know, but an advisor wanted her quietly removed. He sends a messenger to the king of whatever land she was banished to and suggests that it would be really good, and win favor with his king, if she disappeared. Instant trouble for Vashti, and she does not have to know why.

Anyway...seems you want a different answer.

I'm in a state of considering your suggestion, even if I'm not sure it fits. The problem is that I don't see a reason for anyone in court to care where she's gone to after being exiled. I just don't see it as likely that a child born to a disgraced former queen could threaten the line of succession without any historical examples. Such a child would have zero legitimacy without evidence that he is the king's son, which basically means significant political support.

Add to the fact that Vashti spends a couple weeks or months in her personal estate before making the decision to leave for the silk road. If anyone thought she was a threat you would think they would already have taken care of her.

Plus, it's plot-relevant that in my story, the Persian line of succession is based on parental favoritism. This means that the king can declare any of his sons regardless of age as his heir, and change his mind whenever he wants to.

So all

Currently Ive arrived at the decision of an organization dedicated to keeping the djinn trapped, and whoever makes a deal with the djinn will draw their attention. As for the djinn being evil, I think she's actually morally grey and would like to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, although the organization believes she needs to be trapped to keep the world safe. Trusting her or not will be a big decision for Vashti.



But I will state that there is no one in court who could possibly know of her plan to kill the king, considering that Vashti is hardly stupid enough to openly declare her intent to commit regicide. And by the time that idea becomes a thought in her head, she's been living with the amazons at the edge of the empire for years.

 

[eighty-sixed-jackalope]

"Tale of two queens" is my YA fantasy retelling of "The Book of Esther", featuring Vashti and Esther as dual protagonists and POV characters.
In my story, Vashti's arc starts after she lost her position and banished from court. She moves into her personal estate and mopes for a while, but then she remembers the tales told by her friend, a concubine, of her life among the amazons, an all-female tribe who live outside the empire's borders. This gives Vashti the motivation to leave her old life behind to join the amazons, and she succeeds and ends up becoming the adopted daughter of the amazon queen Tomyris.

Then she starts her quest to take revenge on Ahuasuerus for having abused her throughout their marriage. She receives an offer from a djinn imprisoned inside a cave to find a way to free her in return for helping her with the revenge, and so Vashti sets out to find whatever she needs to free the djinn.

While writing and brainstorming I realized a major problem with Vashti's storyline I've envisioned so far: there is no main antagonist who acts as the driving force. While Esther has Haman and Ahuasuerus as antagonists she has to overcome, there is no reason for anyone from Vashti's old life to care about her after she leaves the royal court.

While Vashti is on her journey she gets a raven companion, which comes in handy after she learns of the new queen and feeling sympathy, uses the raven to send messages back and forth between them. But otherwise my vision is that Vashti and Esther's storylines run parallel and they don't meet in person until near the end.

When I first conceived of my story I envisioned a fairy-tale-like tone, similar to the story-cycles from "1000 and 1 Nights" such as Sinbad or the Odyssey where the hero has fantastical adventures in magical realms, encountering monsters and witnessing supernatural phenomena in an episodic structure.

But after I decided I want my story to lean more towards the YA genre, the format of disconnected episodic adventures don't really work anymore, and I need a central villain for a coherent character arc and storyline.

I want to ask for help in conceiving of an antagonist who could drive Vashti's arc.

maybe they could have a shared antagonist? a common interest. i had a sudden spark of inspiration, perhaps the djinn could become an antagonist.

 

[Trailofstardust]

maybe they could have a shared antagonist? a common interest. i had a sudden spark of inspiration, perhaps the djinn could become an antagonist.

The djinn is trapped inside a cave until the climax of vashti's story, because her entire arc is about killing the king and she needs the djinns help to do that.

 

[eighty-sixed-jackalope]

yes, but once free what does the djinn do?

 

[Trailofstardust]

yes, but once free what does the djinn do?

That is a good question to wonder, though my question is about finding an antagonist before that happens.

 

[pmmg]

Maybe a rival Amazon who does not like her appearance into the tribe. One who has ambitions not all amazons share.

 

[Trailofstardust]

Hear me out, the ultimate bad guy for everything is the Djinn.

Genies/Djinn have multiple depictions, and one that goes underused is the Djinn who is actually evil and just manipulating folks.

You specifically use the word Djinn too, which is commonly used to depict the more 'evil' genies. from what little I understand about the mythical being. Djinn and Genie are not mutually exclusive. They have some overlap sure, but I'd do a bit of research on Djinn and then some research on Genies.
Maybe even have a Genie in your story who wants to end the baddie Djinn.

As others have stated, "genie" and "djinn" aren't different types of creatures, "genies" are the westernized depiction of djinn, who are beings in traditional middle eastern folklore and mythology. Their morality is just as varied as that of humans, and while they feature in Islam belief in them predate the religion, according to the Quran they were made by god from smokeless fire.

I have to admit that I take some offense at your conception that "genies" are "good" while djinn are evil. Because as I said, genies are basically the westernized version of djinn featured in orientalist media that depict the "orient" in a stereotypical and inaccurate manner, such as Aladdin or "I dream of Jeannie".

Depictions of "genies" in those media are defanged from the original myth. Djinn are like fey, and do not have to grant wishes.

"Orientalism" is an ideology which can be summed up as "'Eastern' societies from the middle east to east asia viewed through a patronizing, Western lens, which is often distorted from reality".

As for the djinn in my story, I dont think making her evil fits, because I want to make the point that she's sympathetic despite her terrifying visage. She claims to have been imprisoned inside the cave by king Solomon after leading a rebellion of djinn against him for enslaving her people to build his palace.

I want Vashti to connect with the djinn on rebelling against oppressive authority, which might not work if the djinn is evil. But there might be some agenda she's not telling Vashti about.

 

[xena]

Conflict can follow internally and thematically, not physically.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

As others have stated, "genie" and "djinn" aren't different types of creatures, "genies" are the westernized depiction of djinn, who are beings in traditional middle eastern folklore and mythology. Their morality is just as varied as that of humans, and while they feature in Islam belief in them predate the religion, according to the Quran they were made by god from smokeless fire.

I have to admit that I take some offense at your conception that "genies" are "good" while djinn are evil. Because as I said, genies are basically the westernized version of djinn featured in orientalist media that depict the "orient" in a stereotypical and inaccurate manner, such as Aladdin or "I dream of Jeannie".

Depictions of "genies" in those media are defanged from the original myth. Djinn are like fey, and do not have to grant wishes.

"Orientalism" is an ideology which can be summed up as "'Eastern' societies from the middle east to east asia viewed through a patronizing, Western lens, which is often distorted from reality".

As for the djinn in my story, I dont think making her evil fits, because I want to make the point that she's sympathetic despite her terrifying visage. She claims to have been imprisoned inside the cave by king Solomon after leading a rebellion of djinn against him for enslaving her people to build his palace.

I want Vashti to connect with the djinn on rebelling against oppressive authority, which might not work if the djinn is evil. But there might be some agenda she's not telling Vashti about.

First of all, no need to get super offended, read my discussion in this thread with PMMING about the topic. Apparently you didn't read the part where I said I only know what I'm exposed to in media (or chose to ignore it) and didn't know much else.

Second: Suggestions are suggestions, if you don't like a suggestion you can discard it. you could also ask for clarification. PMMing took a much calmer approach so I was willing to discuss with them. but clearly my suggestions aren't wanted here.

 

[pmmg]

Yes, when ppl mean to offend, you know it. All of us need to approach the posts of others with an understanding heart. Misunderstandings are bound to happen. Specially between cultures.

I wonder in what ways you think the djinn have been defanged?

 

[pmmg]

You misspelled my handle twice. I even took out all the vowels to make it easy . I’m should have used pmmzeldamaster I’m offended

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

You misspelled my handle twice. I even took out all the vowels to make it easy . I’m should have used pmmzeldamaster I’m offended

I mean it IS the internet, people can get offended at whatever they want. (ok maybe not everything...except maybe on the magical wonderland that is Reddit) though one might want to carefully read a post before getting offended. I usually double check before I comment.

also my bad, probably won't happen again unless I'm posting at like 1:30 am and running on fumes. (which happens sometimes since I write later in the evening, tho usually I finish my session around 12:-12:30)