Point of View Writing

[BJ Swabb]

So I have been writing my novel series for four years, and I have gotten feed back that I tend to write in both third and first person. I don't even know I do it, and I really don't understand what is the difference and how can I tell how to correct it?

 

[Finchbearer]

1st person: As I walk over to the stone circle

1st person past tense: When I walked over to the stone circle

3rd person: the man walks over to the stone circle

3rd person past tense: the man walked over to the stone circle

You can have both in writing but it might become confusing for the reader if you switch the tenses without reason or rhyme. Many 3rd person fiction novels are written in the past tense but read as though it’s all happening right now.

 

[BJ Swabb]

1st person: As I walk over to the stone circle

1st person past tense: When I walked over to the stone circle

3rd person: the man walks over to the stone circle

3rd person past tense: the man walked over to the stone circle

You can have both in writing but it might become confusing for the reader if you switch the tenses without reason or rhyme. Many 3rd person fiction novels are written in the past tense but read as though it’s all happening right now.

Okay cool. I use 1st and third quite a bit. Only because I like to describe creatures,characters and what they are doing throughout my series. You would mind looking at my work and see if it works out how it is would you?

 

[Finchbearer]

Sorry, I’m too time constrained to dedicate to something like this, but feel free to put up a critique request thread on here - keep it short - and you very well may get some feedback on your tenses.

 

[BJ Swabb]

Sorry, I’m too time constrained to dedicate to something like this, but feel free to put up a critique request thread on here - keep it short - and you very well may get some feedback on your tenses.

Okay thanks!

 

[Prince of Spires]

In general it's better for any story to stick to either 1st or 3rd person point of view. If you mix them then people tend to get confused and the change tends to throw people out of the story.

As with anything writing related, there can be situations where you change intentionally. For instance, you can have an interlude in a different type of point of view. But if you change, make sure you do so intentionally, and try to avoid it as much as possible.

For a clarification, check
Lecture #4: Viewpoint and Q&A — Brandon Sanderson on Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy

 

[pmmg]

So I have been writing my novel series for four years, and I have gotten feed back that I tend to write in both third and first person. I don't even know I do it, and I really don't understand what is the difference and how can I tell how to correct it?

When people were telling you that, you did not go to Google and look it up?

I am number 1, you are number 2, and he and she are number 3.

If you are really not able to tell the difference, you are not ready for beta readers. But if you are started a lot of sentces off with 'I' then you are in first person. If you say 'He' a lot, you are in third. This is stuff you should be able to fix on your own. You need to decide a story voice and stick to it. If you are switching, it needs to be deliberate and with purpose.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yeah, this would be an intimate form of head hopping, heh heh. POV hopping is bad, much like tense hopping, much like the aforementioned head-hopping. You can do it in a book, but the sections should be delineated by chapter or clear breaks.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I'm an educator at heart, so I tend to assign homework. Let's get your writing reference library started.

This is the book every writer needs on their shelf... Kindle... what have you.
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-4th-Feathers-Classics-ebook/dp/B0798TTKDT/

This is out of print and you'll need to find it from a third party vendor, but it is a must have for learning how to consciously use what you instinctively know about your characters.
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Fiction-Writing-Characters-Viewpoint/dp/0898799279/

There are nine of these out there, and you want them all, plus an extra bit of help from on called Emotion Amplifiers.
https://www.amazon.com/Emotion-Thesaurus-Writers-Character-Expression-ebook/dp/B07MTQ7W6Q/

If you're writing violence, and let's face it, how many of us here aren't? But if you are, you need this.
https://www.amazon.com/Violence-Writers-Second-Rory-Miller-ebook/dp/B00CWGH46I/

Also for writing violence I recommend reading our very own Joseph Malik's military portal fantasy. You'll never write violence the same way again.
https://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Trail-Outworlders-Book-1-ebook/dp/B01JF0KWZ8/

I also strongly recommend rereading your favorite authors to see how they use tense and language to make a scene sing. Which characters have the most at stake in each interaction? Is the author following through with this? What do you like and want to incorporate? (We are all shameless mimics, and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.) Look at their language. Their dialogue. Their descriptions. Read the suggestions we're all going to give here, and decide through practice which one works best for you. Good luck!

 

[pmmg]

I have Stunk and White, and have liked every Writers Guide book I have looked at. Its been a while, but I will dig them out and see if there are any I would recommend.

For me, I like the ones that say it fast and get to the point. Which is another way of saying, thinner is better. I would avoid any of them that start with 'On' such are 'On writing...' or 'On writing romance...'. Its to stuffy and pretentious right from the start

 

[Malik]

Also for writing violence I recommend reading our very own Joseph Malik's military portal fantasy. You'll never write violence the same way again.
Amazon.com: Dragon's Trail (The Outworlders Book 1) eBook : Malik, Joseph: Kindle Store

Such kind words. Thank you.

BJ, I sell my ebooks for $9.99. (There's a whole thread on that somewhere on these boards.) If that's too steep, DM me and I'll send you one. No worries.

 

[Finchbearer]

I am suddenly reminded from this thread that there are in fact many instructional books out there on ‘how to write’!

 

[pmmg]

Since this one came back up...thought I would follow through and put up some books I liked.

Truth is, I dont look at them much anymore, but I still keep them and like to know they are there.


Fantasy Reference - Not sure if I have exactly this one, but I have one like it.

You can Write a Romance - There are a number of books in this group by Writers Digest. You can write a Romance, You can write a mystery, You can write a ____... Short and to the point. I liked them. (And now that I am looking, there are some more, so I may buy another).

First Five Pages - I liked this book a lot when I was just starting. I think I have another by Mr. Lukeman, but I dont remember the title.

Elements of Style - Mentioned above. I have this one. There are many style guides, but I am old school. I defer to this when there is a question.

Art of Styling Sentences - I think it is this one. Another short and to the point (Notice a theme?)

English Grammar and Composition - I had my college English Grammar and Composition book, but I lost it I need to buy another

Mythology - I have many books on Mythology, but Edith Hamilton's was the one I had in school


In looking for these, I came across some others I might buy in the near future.

Uncovering Mythology Collection

Fantasy Writers Handbook

How to Write Fantasy - Looks similar to the writers digest ones. Maybe....

Dear Writer, you need to quit - Okay, title grabbed me

Writing Voice - Voice always holds a strong interest from me.

Self Publishing Empire - But of course...

Though, if I am being honest, I am not expecting to get much out of these anymore.


Ones I did not like.....

Steven King's how to write book. Had a few good parts, but too much Steven King

On writing by zinser? Hated this one. Too long winded, not enough getting to it.

Hero of a thousand faces. Kind of the bible right? I did not care for this book. Erudite is how I would describe it. Saying a lot while also saying nothing.

That's enough. Good luck with them.

And if you want my best advice, see rules below

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I am suddenly reminded from this thread that there are in fact many instructional books out there on ‘how to write’!

Oh, great googly moogly. Yeah, one or two. This is the physical portion of my writing reference library (there are a few hundred more on Kindle) (Noto bene: this is just the writing section. There are a whole lot more on individual subjects.) and includes not only some of my oldest books, it also includes the references I inherited from my mom - also an author - and her body of work. Watch your books. They breed.

 

[Finchbearer]

Wow quite the collection there AE Lowan. I have a small collection of books, but paperbacks can be expensive, and so my Kindle library is expanding constantly…

 

[pmmg]

I should add to this....Books I would like, and may eventually make myself

I want a part 2 to the fantasy reference guide to cover things it may have missed but could also be added. I think it would be useful to include a guide to map making. I would also like a book on ships in various time periods for writers, particularly how fast, how much crew, how much cargo, and how long they could sustain. Stuff like that. I'd also not mind a similar break down for other modes of transportation. Right now, I think the best sources for that is RPG materials.

My old school DM guide, Players handbook, and Unearthed Arcana as still some I go to when I want to know how fast a small horse should be. Also the wilderness survival guide. It was all first edition stuff. I dont care for the editions that came after.

I also saw a book on emotional thesuarus terms or such. I might look at that as well, if its really different from just a thesaurus.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Since this one came back up...thought I would follow through and put up some books I liked.

Truth is, I dont look at them much anymore, but I still keep them and like to know they are there.

I get that. My wife is the same way. Once she's read a reference she absorbs the material and she's done.

I go the other way. I've been writing for over 40 years, now, mostly with my wife - how you singletons do it, I have no clue - and I find that no matter how well-practiced I become, revisiting the basics always refreshes me and helps me to get past stuck spots.

Everyone has their process. I'd like mine to involve coffee in Costa Rica in the afternoons, but that's just me.

Now get back to work.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Wow quite the collection there AE Lowan. I have a small collection of books, but paperbacks can be expensive, and so my Kindle library is expanding constantly…

Same. I'm format-agnostic, but if we hadn't gotten the Kindles the entire house would have collapsed under the weight of all the books, by now. Between books, articles, and packrat crap, I have something like 2k documents sitting on my desk. Very happy little academic.

 

[pmmg]

So how does one write erotica

A lot of those are kind of internet replacable. Plenty of name websites for the book on Irish names. My book shelf is small, so I actually keep fewer of them.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I should add to this....Books I would like, and may eventually make myself

I want a part 2 to the fantasy reference guide to cover things it may have missed but could also be added. I think it would be useful to include a guide to map making. I would also like a book on ships in various time periods for writers, particularly how fast, how much crew, how much cargo, and how long they could sustain. Stuff like that. I'd also not mind a similar break down for other modes of transportation. Right now, I think the best sources for that is RPG materials.

My old school DM guide, Players handbook, and Unearthed Arcana as still some I go to when I want to know how fast a small horse should be. Also the wilderness survival guide. It was all first edition stuff. I dont care for the editions that came after.

I also saw a book on emotional thesuarus terms or such. I might look at that as well, if its really different from just a thesaurus.

The nine/ten books of the Emotion Thesaurus series are worth their weight in gold. Well worth checking out.