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Question on verbs

Holoman

Troubadour
I have a quick question on using verbs in sentences. I understand that it is best to use active rather than passive verbs in fiction, for example:

John picked a flower.
A flower was picked by John.

But how about using verbs of this form

John walked by the river and picked a flower from the bank.
John walked by the river, picking a flower from the bank.

Are either of these sentences 'better' than the other because of the use of verbs (picked/picking)?

I have noticed that I am avoiding using 'ing' forms of verbs because I seem to have got it in my head that it's better to use 'ed' but no idea why I think this or if it is even true. I think I may have gotten confused with the active/passive thing.
 

La Volpe

Sage
I use both. Sometimes interchangeably.

But I think the general idea here is that the -ing verbs suggests that something is busy happening. In the case of your example, John either walked to the river, stopped, and picked a flower; or he was walking by the river and picks a flower while he is walking.

To illustrate my point more clearly, another example:
1) John closed the door, locking it with his key.
2) John closed the door and locked it with his key.

I would say that only option 2 works, since you can't close the door and lock it at the same time.

Similarly:
1) John locked the door, smiling.
2) John locked the door and smiled.

These two have different meanings. In 1, he's smiling while locking the door. In 2, he smiles after he locked the door.

Anyway, that's how I've always seen it.
 

Holoman

Troubadour
Thanks, I get the difference in meaning but as an author I guess you can choose whether you want things happening concurrently or in sequence. But I guess there is no reason to avoid one or the other.
 
John walked by the river and picked a flower from the bank.
John walked by the river, picking a flower from the bank.

I'll add to La Volpe's observations something else. For me, the first of these examples shows or implies some level of intention or forethought, but in the second his picking of the flower could be a happenstance. (He happens to be walking by the river when he sees the flower and impulsively picks it.)

Perhaps this impression arises from what La Volpe already mentioned. If something else is already happening, and it is described with an active verb, then that thing probably is intentional to some degree. Whatever else occurs during the action is subordinate, happenstance, coincidence, incidental.

This might also go to explain why the examples of closing and then locking the door, and/or smiling, work the way they do. Locking it is an intentional act separate from the intentional act of closing the door; but smiling while locking the door is more subconscious or an unconscious act, less intentional.

The reason that the phrasing may seem passive is probably tied to this. Action and intention go together, but movement or events without intention may imply a kind of passivity. I.e., while the actor is busy acting intentionally, other things are occurring. Even if those other things spring from within him, if they are subconscious or unconscious, he's a passive participant.

These considerations may not apply to all uses of -ing phrases, but they are something to keep in mind.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I know it's just an example, but for me the second example has the picking of the flower taking time as he walks along the river, which conjures up an image of this incredibly long flower root being pulled, cartoon-like, as the character walks.

Addendum: in the sentence above, "which conjures" could also have been "conjuring". I maintain there is a difference in connotation that is worth considering.

Postscript to addendum: Isn't that "-ing" called the present progressive tense? Someone answer quick; I sense my grade school grammar teacher on my tail.
 

TheKillerBs

Maester
A verb in "-ing" is the gerund form. Present progressive adds a conjugation of the verb "to be" before the gerund. I am writing this in present progressive. Writing is a verb in gerund form.
 
A verb in "-ing" is the gerund form. Present progressive adds a conjugation of the verb "to be" before the gerund. I am writing this in present progressive. Writing is a verb in gerund form.

I think it's "present participle," at least for the use in question. The gerund is the noun form, always used as a noun.

"Writing is fun." (Gerund.)

"FifthView wrote gibberish, frustrating his readers." (Present Participle.)

[Of course one might wonder whether the writing and the frustrating can be done at the same time...]
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I actually really enjoy grammar. Learned to enjoy it when I started learning Latin. It was revelatory: there are _rules_! And they actually make sense! Even the violations and permutations make sense, when one learns the history of it. It was way more fun than math ... and way more complex.

None of which is to say I learned it well or thoroughly, only that I enjoyed the learning itself.
 
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