Russ
Istar
I'd take my chances with that.
But have seen it happen a few times, and so far it hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them too badly.
-
Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!
Rant: Non writers live in a dreamworld.
- Thread starter Annoyingkid
- Start date
I'd take my chances with that.
But have seen it happen a few times, and so far it hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them too badly.
No. You didn't. But it seems implied given your answers that writing a book and having it sell are easy things to do. I want to make a living with my writing someday but this doesn't mean I love writing any less than someone else who doesn't. I just think creating divisions like that does nobody any favors. We all have our reasons for writing books. I don't consider myself less artistic than you or Sheila. In fact, I work pretty hard. I have to be really good someday, I keep telling myself, because no amount of money and effort thrown at promotions will keep my readers coming back. Only my storytelling will. It's why I write so much. Because it's hard to make a living doing this. Writing good stories is hard no matter what!
Well I have never said that finances do not matter. What I have said is that storytelling should be done for natural and artistic reasons in first place, and for financial reasons in second. I disagree with the concept that it's just a business, and that anybody can become great at it with just learning and practice.
I agree that alienating one's family because they mock one's work is not a good idea, at least not before you become really successful in the financial area. At least, I would not do it! I have a loving and wonderful family anyway, so my situation is different to that of A.K.
My storytelling passion is shared by my sister, even though she works in a different genre. Our parents know that we are into storytelling and (in the case of my sister) poetry, and they are happy with that. They are not very interested in what we do, anyway. If one of us became wildly successful, nothing would change in our family.
Now, what is the origin of this belief that if you do not put business as first place you are going to starve, like no other possibilities of income existed? At least in my case, I do not have any serious financial risks. I am not rich, but I am not in danger either. It's just that I feel little or no interest in earning money from my works, because that's not the reason that I write stories to start with.
Russ
Istar
Helio is making a great point here and developing an important theme I was trying to convey to AK.
I totally get total focus and dedication to any goal or task, and trying to avoid distractions or people who might (heaven forbid) mock what you are doing. But...
Despite the belief that you will be a raging success (or any success) at your artist endeavour (and I wish AK every success in the world) there is a chance, no matter how you want to assess it, that you won't be successful. And if you do not succeed and this does not become your successful vocation, you will have burned a bunch of extra bridges that you didn't need to burn along the way. When those bridges are family and friends those can be significant losses. So even if your chance of failure is small it is always best to plan for the possibility that you will not succeed and that might include not cutting people out of your life over this issue.
A little lesson I have learned over the many, many conflicts in my life is that it is always wise to both make sure you have a graceful retreat for yourself if things go wrong, and almost as importantly leave others a means to retreat as well so relationships can be maintained. Sun Tzu said "Build your enemy a golden bridge to retreat over" or something like that. In this case eliminating people from your life because they don't support, or even mock, your artistic goals leaves you no graceful retreat if you are not successful, and having a "I will remember those SOBs when I am successful and get the last laugh" attitude leaves them no graceful retreat.
So your options then look like, I succeed and have lost family and friends, or I fail and have lost family and friends. Instead of :
I succeeded and have kept my family and friends, and I have failed and kept my family and friends.
LWFlouisa
Troubadour
What I was specifically implying was I'm tired of being expected to be the next Stephen King or Dan Brown just to get a book published. Not everyone can be. But being a midlist, if I COULD achieve that would be fine by me.
I don't give a crap about "art". I'm talking personal therapy here. If writing were not Cathartic, I wouldn't do it.
I don't give a crap about "art". I'm talking personal therapy here. If writing were not Cathartic, I wouldn't do it.
Russ
Istar
This is a great position to be in. If your writing is therapeutic, it ads value to your life whether or not it sells.
If it sells well, it is just a bonus.
I know lots of people in the midlist. Many of them are very happy.
Last edited:
LWFlouisa
Troubadour
Exactly. I meant more that Agents seem entitled to me to only want the next Fifty Shades. I dont have that kind of luck.
Oh, alright. It's just that you quoted Devor's answer to me and you also said she so your comments seemed to be aimed at my statements.
L.W. I think that if your writing is therapeutic, it means that it's something very personal of yours and that defines it as art. My storytelling is some form of therapy for me as well, or at least it contributes a lot to keep me walking on this world.
LWFlouisa
Troubadour
Yea I just hesitate to call it art for above reasons: art seems to be bizarrely associated with having a Henry The 8th sized ego.XD Which isn't exactly what I meant.
evolution_rex
Inkling
I definitely do believe starving artist type is a pretty destructive life style. It's making a deliberate choice not to find reasonable work, which is a huge risk that will eventually turn you into a burden for other people. I think a better way to phrase what I think some of us are trying to say is that we'd be perfectly happy with a normal day job while we wrote on the side for the rest of our lives if that meant we could write.
Yeah I know, many people think that all artists have a giant ego. At least some of us are that way, that's true. It's just that we love so much what we do, that maybe we come across as too dreamy and out of this world. We are strange birds indeed, but it would be nice to be a little more appreciated in general.
Very well said, Rex!
LWFlouisa
Troubadour
I mean to be fair I have known some that do have one, but then you'll have someone like Takatsu as well. Ok not the greatest example, but there are some real nice people.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Wow, suprised this thread has drawn as much attention as it has.
Just another abstract aspect to this, which I am not sure is in play, but seems like it could be....
So, one of the skills I would hope many of us have, is just a keen study of humanity, and human behavior and all those things that make people what they are. I think this would be a somewhat necessary curiosity for anyone attempting to write things that connect to other people. If I go about with the attitude of burning bridges, particularly when there is no dire compelling reason, I think that kind of disconnects me from the very thing that should instead be endlessly fascinating to me. I am not sure this is an effective coping strategy that will serve my long term interest. I think I would want to work at developing some others...(Which is not to be construed as an instruction to Mr AnnoyingKid, I dont really know your circumstances). I vote for broadening the forces in my life, not whittling them down. Never know when they may pop up again and be just the thing you need.
And besides, if you really dont like these poeple, put them in your stories as characters
Just another abstract aspect to this, which I am not sure is in play, but seems like it could be....
So, one of the skills I would hope many of us have, is just a keen study of humanity, and human behavior and all those things that make people what they are. I think this would be a somewhat necessary curiosity for anyone attempting to write things that connect to other people. If I go about with the attitude of burning bridges, particularly when there is no dire compelling reason, I think that kind of disconnects me from the very thing that should instead be endlessly fascinating to me. I am not sure this is an effective coping strategy that will serve my long term interest. I think I would want to work at developing some others...(Which is not to be construed as an instruction to Mr AnnoyingKid, I dont really know your circumstances). I vote for broadening the forces in my life, not whittling them down. Never know when they may pop up again and be just the thing you need.
And besides, if you really dont like these poeple, put them in your stories as characters
**Aside: Wait, I thought AnnoyingKid was a woman/girl? Am I wrong? Now I'm confused... what pronoun am I supposed to use for AK? There was nothing on the profile...
LWFlouisa
Troubadour
They could be like me? WHo knows.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Sorry, I actually don't know. Some people give themselves away in that regard, some don't.
Man, Kid, that sure is annoying... enquiring minds want to know.
Has anyone heard of Ted Chiang? He has 4 Hugos, 4 Nebulas, a Campbell, 4 Locus Awards, Turned down a Hugo nomination because he didn't think a story was up to snuff, and had one of his short stories turned into a Hollywood movie, Arrival, starring Amy Adams.
He still has day job as a technical writer.
I'm sure most have heard of Cormac McCarthy. Well, here's a little excerpt from wikipedia.
Has anyone heard of Terry Mixon? He's a podcaster who lost his day job at NASA and was able to transition into writing full-time by self-publishing. To my knowledge, he hasn't won any awards for his writing.
To me, these examples show that there's a wide variety of ways to go about your business. I don't know if Chiang makes enough with his writing to give up his day job, but maybe that's not what he wants. He's got awards up the wazuuu and obvious talent, but he has decided for what ever reason to keep his day job.
McCarthy, well it seems he went the starving artist and alienating family route.
With Terry Mixion, he didn't really have a choice in the matter. He lost his job and because he was making money on the side with his writing already, he decided to take a calculated risk and make a go of it. He worked his butt off, and it seems he's found his audience. Fear can be a great motivator to keep driving forward.
Which ever path you take, you have to keep in mind that one way or the other, you'll always need the means to put a roof over your head and food in your belly.
He still has day job as a technical writer.
I'm sure most have heard of Cormac McCarthy. Well, here's a little excerpt from wikipedia.
Has anyone heard of Terry Mixon? He's a podcaster who lost his day job at NASA and was able to transition into writing full-time by self-publishing. To my knowledge, he hasn't won any awards for his writing.
To me, these examples show that there's a wide variety of ways to go about your business. I don't know if Chiang makes enough with his writing to give up his day job, but maybe that's not what he wants. He's got awards up the wazuuu and obvious talent, but he has decided for what ever reason to keep his day job.
McCarthy, well it seems he went the starving artist and alienating family route.
With Terry Mixion, he didn't really have a choice in the matter. He lost his job and because he was making money on the side with his writing already, he decided to take a calculated risk and make a go of it. He worked his butt off, and it seems he's found his audience. Fear can be a great motivator to keep driving forward.
Which ever path you take, you have to keep in mind that one way or the other, you'll always need the means to put a roof over your head and food in your belly.
Russ
Istar
I love Ted's work, and I was on a panel with him and Ben Bova once years ago. Very articulate wonderful guy.
He chooses to write in lengths that unfortunately don't sell that well and more importantly produce weak royalties. I could do a pretty good guess as to what he made on that movie sale, and while handsome it is not the kind of money that would set you up for life. Too bad, he is super talented.
Dark Squiggle
Troubadour
Ted Chiang is one of my favorite authors. He's incredible. I didn't know he had a day job, but I always thought it was funny that he didn't write full-length novels.
