Science vs. Writers Block

[Heliotrope]

I'd gone back to review that thread that you started on the logline, just to make sure I wasn't confusing the two. But the premise is more a tool for the writer in developing the story than for putting out feelers to potential readers. (Although the premise can be used to sell a story, in Hollywood at least.)

Yeah, what I had read, though, was "share your premise"… because of that story that Neil Gaiman has about that guy that swore he had a kick a$$ premise, then shared it with Gaiman and it was something like "Man travels back in time and kills grandfather."

Basically, what i have read is, if you are comfortable sharing your premise with others who are more experienced, then you might get some insight as to whether it is worth writing or not. Being relatively inexperienced myself, sharing my 'premise' with you and Nimue and Devouring Wolf really helped me to hone in on what was important, and what I wanted to do with the story, and how to inject more 'inherent conflict' by bouncing the idea off of a few people. It is not perfect yet, like I said, what my log line post did was more give me a concrete 'concept'… now I'm trying to work on narrowing it down even further into a solid premise or theme.

 

[FifthView]

PS - A fantasy Detective novel sounds fascinating. I'm so done with Epic Fantasy or "boy goes to magic school" fantasy.

I've never read any of the Dresden Files books, but I think that is what they are? Fantasy detective? But I think they are more contemporary, set in modern day Detroit or something? I would love to read a Fantasy detective series set in another world. I love detective stories! I also love heist stories, which is why I'm writing one for kids. I don't think I've ever seen a pirate/heist crossover for kids lol.

I hadn't read your comments about a fantasy detective novel. Well, my actual first thought was that I wanted to make a fantasy Sherlock Holmes. That was the basic notion that got me started down this path for a standalone novel. But there are problems with the idea of having a professional detective in a medievalish fantasy world, particularly also given some features of the world I'm using. I'd briefly considered something like The Name of the Rose. Now I've pulled back a little from the strictly S. Holmes approach, but am still including mystery/investigative themes and making it more of a political thriller.

 

[FifthView]

Basically, what i have read is, if you are comfortable sharing your premise with others who are more experienced, then you might get some insight as to whether it is worth writing or not. Being relatively inexperienced myself, sharing my 'premise' with you and Nimue and Devouring Wolf really helped me to hone in on what was important, and what I wanted to do with the story, and how to inject more 'inherent conflict' by bouncing the idea off of a few people. It is not perfect yet, like I said, what my log line post did was more give me a concrete 'concept'… now I'm trying to work on narrowing it down even further into a solid premise or theme.

Oh yeah, it's a great idea to share the premise for feedback. Right now I'm still quibbling w/ myself over a couple phrases in the premise for my book; I can definitely see where getting input could help.

Basically I just wondered about the distinction between a logline (or a more lengthy summary) vs a concise premise.

 

[Heliotrope]

Cool. Sounds awesome. I'd love to see more of that sort of thing on the shelves. Like I said, I'm getting so sick of Epic Fantasy. The Name of the Rose is they type of thing that I LOVE. I love a good twisty turny mystery story. Inject some magic into that and it would be perfection. I would read that in a fantasy setting in a heartbeat.

 

[Heliotrope]

Oh yeah, it's a great idea to share the premise for feedback. Right now I'm still quibbling w/ myself over a couple phrases in the premise for my book; I can definitely see where getting input could help.

Basically I just wondered about the distinction between a logline (or a more lengthy summary) vs a concise premise.

I think, because narrowing it down into that single concrete premise is so challenging, starting with a few sentences in a log line (for me anyway) was helpful… then you just sort of have to compost it and compost it and keep finding better words (like you said) and keep researching your characters and your setting and mining and mining and mining that inherent conflict until you come out with a little diamond. I'm learning that it is very time consuming and challenging, and it makes sense to do it first, because the story changes quite substantially (for the better) as you go through the process.

 

[FifthView]

I think part of my initial problem was that I was keeping my version of the log line in my head. There were too many sentences! I mean, too many ideas all coming together. I can see where you had the same sort of thing happening, just by considering all the various log lines/summaries you posted in that thread.

There are some other pointers in the Truby book I might post sometime, about how to isolate/discover what is the specific premise for a writer in the midst of that kind of mélange of ideas. It can take weeks, or longer, just to narrow it down.

 

[Heliotrope]

Totally. When I first started out I felt like such a failure (like the OP noted) because I wasn't writing every day and I was doing a lot of sitting around thinking, or writing out pages and pages of character traits that meant NOTHING at all. Who the F cares what her eye colour is? How is that relevant to the story? Then I read a novel planning workbook that said "I usually spend a few weeks to a few months in the planning phase" and a lightbulb clicked. Ohhhhhhh! There is all this stuff to do first. Since then I've noticed that some writers I hang out with in other writers groups get all excited and write out their whole story, but then find they have bad middle sag, or they have to rely on a ton of episodic tension to keep the story going. They didn't think it through at the beginning, and they just don't have a good enough premise to hold up an entire novel. Too bad.

Wasting a few weeks to months in the early stages to really set the stage is better (to me) then wasting seven months on a draft that can't hold together.

 

[Heliotrope]

Plus I love this quote from George RR Martin on writers block:

"On good days I look up and it's dark outside and the whole day has gone by and I don't know where it's gone. But there's bad days, too. Where I struggle and sweat and a half hour creeps by and I've written three words. And half a day creeps by and I've written a sentence and a half and then I quit for the day and play computer games. You know, sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. "