Show don't Tell?

[Heliotrope]

Thanks Chesterama. That is encouraging.

 

[Incanus]

It's a huge discrepancy.

The "rules," including "show don't tell" serve one primary purpose - to stop new writers inadvertently screwing up things new writers commonly screw up.

Once you realize that's what they're for, you can understand why so many professional authors deviate from the so-called rules and are nevertheless successful. As Gospodin noted, above, they're being deliberate about their choices rather than stumbling blindly into that territory because they don't know better.

Yes. Exactly. This is the better, fuller version of what I was saying.

There is actually good scientific and anecdotal evidence that the very best creative writing is done immediately after you wake up or just before you go to sleep when you are quite tired, when you brain is in an in between space and your rational mind is not fully running the show yet. I heard several authors talk about that and later say a couple of articles on that. That might be something that works for you. Some people can meditate their way into that state but I am not one of them. Give it a try and see what happens.

Interesting how this squares with my experience of late. I write first drafts at night, usually during the 2-4 hours just before hitting the sack. I sometimes get a little first-drafting in on weekend days, but I'd guess about 95% or more is at night.

But editing I can seem to do at almost any time of day.

 

[Gospodin]

Thanks Chesterama. That is encouraging.

Allow me to add to the encouragement. Having read your OP, you do seem to have a grasp of what show & tell are. That's a huge advantage. Don't know if you play in other writing forums, but the array of (mis)interpretations for what show & tell are can often be bewildering and seem like an insurmountable roadblock to even getting to a place where one can talk about when to use one or the other. Take heart in that you are on the other side of that roadblock. You know what the thing is. Now it's just about when and how to use it.

 

[skip.knox]

Telling is ok, or so I'm told. I have yet to be shown otherwise.

 

[Heliotrope]

Skip that was awesome.

 

[Incanus]

Skip that was awesome.

Agreed. Skip is pretty consistently awesome.

 

[Heliotrope]

Ok, so since I have this post up... Lets pretend this is a sample of my intro to my short I'm working on. (I obviously used some of the structure from one of the story's I posted.) I opted to not use this intro, but I was playing around with ideas and when I'm stumped I like to use the structure of something that exists to get me started.

Would this be too much telling?


I went all the way to As’bel with a tomb robber named Handsome to get my soul back from an undead priest I’d never heard of.

Clutching my Anam lamp over the charred mummy at the tomb’s entrance, I suddenly wasn’t so sure I wanted it. I found out in As’bel that the priest who bought my soul was known as the Paper Man. From what I’d seen of him back in Willing Downs his name was apt. Layer upon layer of crumbling paper-thin skin encasing a dusty heart and petrified rib bones. Four thousand years dead does that to a person. It’s probably a bitch buying souls when your body won’t hold up. Someone should invent something for that. A high-end body oil. They would make a mint. I promised myself if I got out of there I would do some serious investigating into the undead cosmetics industry. Abilene would have been great at that, I thought. She used to make the best soap.

 

[BWFoster78]

Would this be too much telling?

I'm not sure it's "too much telling" that's the issue as much as understanding what information to include and where to include it and then the how to convey it (such as Show vs Tell).

I went all the way to As’bel with a tomb robber named Handsome to get my soul back from an undead priest I’d never heard of.

Look at all the information you're throwing the reader all at once. An unnamed protagonist, "As'bel", a tomb robber named Handsome, and an undead priest.

I had readers complain to me that I introduced too many characters/concepts at the beginning, and mine were way, way more spread out than this.

Clutching my Anam lamp over the charred mummy at the tomb’s entrance, I suddenly wasn’t so sure I wanted it.

Is it a thing that I don't know or is it something you made up? If the latter, is it important here?

In contrast to your opening, how about this for an opening line:

Clutching my lamp over a charred mummy at the tomb’s entrance, I suddenly wasn’t so sure I wanted my soul back.

That's a pretty killer opening, imo.

I found out in As’bel that the priest who bought my soul was known as the Paper Man. From what I’d seen of him back in Willing Downs his name was apt. Layer upon layer of crumbling paper-thin skin encasing a dusty heart and petrified rib bones. Four thousand years dead does that to a person. It’s probably a bitch buying souls when your body won’t hold up. Someone should invent something for that. A high-end body oil. They would make a mint. I promised myself if I got out of there I would do some serious investigating into the undead cosmetics industry. Abilene would have been great at that, I thought. She used to make the best soap.

I get that you're trying to create this witty, snarky character voice, but you completely lost the thread of story. I've got a guy (or girl, who knows?) in an interesting situation. Then ... nothing.

To me, these kinds of character voice things are fantastic ... when doled out judiciously while the story is happening.

 

[Heliotrope]

Right. Exactly why I didn't end up using it. OK, so I'm feeling better now. I think I'm sort of figuring it out a bit.

Thanks for the feedback. It's exactly what I was looking for!

 

[BWFoster78]

Right. Exactly why I didn't end up using it. OK, so I'm feeling better now. I think I'm sort of figuring it out a bit.

Thanks for the feedback. It's exactly what I was looking for!

Gotta say though that I really like the opening line:

Clutching my lamp over a charred mummy at the tomb’s entrance, I suddenly wasn’t so sure I wanted my soul back.

IMO, the second best opening line I've read on these boards.

EDIT: In fact, if you're not going to use it for anything else, you really should do a challenge prompt or something with it.

 

[Heliotrope]

Actually, the opening line I did end up using was similar. I was with you on too much info all at once

 

[FifthView]

I'd say go back to the examples in your OP, and look at Chesterama's example, and see what else is going on.

Because, although I've mentioned several times using telling to get info "out there" quickly so you can move on to the action, telling should never, ever, ever be merely about info-dumping.*

The first two examples in your OP set the stage but also, I think, give us some basic character development. For instance, Wallace (the fighter) seems to me to be more trapped, by circumstance, than Shadow even though Shadow is in prison:

That’s what it had come to.​

That line is pretty strong for conveying this impression. But we are also given "The Brazilian’s name was Thiago something" and "it had something to do with" some show that only Brazilian audiences knew–and basically, Wallace "wasn’t overly interested" which was just as well because "no one cared enough to explain it" anyway. In other words, Wallace wasn't too invested in the whole thing, even if "that's what it had come to."

Contrast that with Shadow. He's not overly concerned with having to protect himself in prison, because his bases are covered there. But while there, his mind ranges freely to the things he is interested in, his personal investments–"So he kept himself in shape, and taught himself coin tricks, and thought a lot about how much he loved his wife." And besides which, "The best thing...about being in prison was a feeling of relief."

Along with giving basic character dynamics, both of these beginnings also set a tone. The tone will be reliant on the character traits of the two–or, say, their attitudes.

Now look at Chesterama's example.

Twila went to bed early that night. She tossed and turned on the uncomfortable straw bed, wishing she were back in the palace where she belonged. When morning came, her back couldn't have been any stiffer.

What this does is not only give information (transition between night and day; the fact that Twila slept), but it also sets her disposition for that day: irritable, frustrated, achy. We might actually have no need to know that her back is stiff this morning; that's not an info-dump. But it is setting the tone, so that we may expect (I know I do) that there are going to be edges rubbed, some kind of friction or irritability or frustration etc., underlying Twila's experiences that day. Actually, this may not happen; something could occur fairly early on in that scene that changes everything. And for all I know, Chesterama could end the scene/chapter with Twila suddenly remembering how horrible she had felt only that morning.

So, in short, any passages that use telling need to accomplish more than mere info dump. So....

I went all the way to As’bel with a tomb robber named Handsome to get my soul back from an undead priest I’d never heard of.

Clutching my Anam lamp over the charred mummy at the tomb’s entrance, I suddenly wasn’t so sure I wanted it. I found out in As’bel that the priest who bought my soul was known as the Paper Man. From what I’d seen of him back in Willing Downs his name was apt. Layer upon layer of crumbling paper-thin skin encasing a dusty heart and petrified rib bones. Four thousand years dead does that to a person. It’s probably a bitch buying souls when your body won’t hold up. Someone should invent something for that. A high-end body oil. They would make a mint. I promised myself if I got out of there I would do some serious investigating into the undead cosmetics industry. Abilene would have been great at that, I thought. She used to make the best soap.

That first line seems to me to be mere info-dump. Now, if the info is particularly eye-catching or mind-catching, there may not be a problem in dumping info; so, something like,

I went all the way to As’bel to get my soul back from an undead priest named The Paper Man.​

–This, I think, would work. But as Brian said above, you have dumped so much info in your first line, we readers will get lost trying to isolate what's important. And if we can't isolate what's important, nothing can particularly catch the eye/mind.

I do like the sort of acerbic chattiness of the rest of the intro, although I think maybe it could be pared down. Plus, you need to hit the important points/ideas (see example of the first line I gave above). And be sure that the ideas you want presented, the impressions and tone, are want you want to convey. For instance, "high-end" and "make a mint" and "cosmetic industry" convey a modern environment or modern attitudes, which may be important for you to include early if you want to set your world up early for the reader. But what is most important for you for your beginning, setting up that world or establishing, at the very beginning, your character's habitual attitude to things, her acerbic world-view? I'm not saying you can't establish both, but only that you need to be careful not to spread your focus willy-nilly, which would be a little like giving too much info in your first line.




*I hate giving universal absolutes, inviolate rules, however. So who knows, but maybe an info-dump could be used well in some oddball situations.

 

[Heliotrope]

Those are excellent distinctions Fifth View. Thank you.

 

[Bruce McKnight]

Yes, Russ, I have also considered my first draft to be like 'clay'. That's what I always tell myself. Just get the damn clay down onto the page. You can't shape something that doesn't exist. I literally picture myself throwing chunks of sloppy, wet messy clay onto the page, knowing it will dry and I can shape it anyway I like after it is done. Sometimes it is just hard to look at such a slippery mess.

I feel the same way about writing and I always make it a point to keep this quote in mind when I'm revising:

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
-Antoine de Saint-Exupery

To summarize other comments I agree with on this thread: understand the rules so you know why you're breaking them, then read with the rules in mind to understand why successful authors broke them.

 

[BWFoster78]

One last thought on Show vs Tell (okay, you got me; probably not my last thought on the subject ):

In the beginning, I wrote:

She was hungry.

And thought it was good.

Then I learned to show, and I wrote:

Her stomach growled.

And I thought: Word ninja!

Then I realized that, to really show hungry, I need a scene where my character shoves rats out of the way to get at the putrid remains of food at the bottom of a dumpster.

And I thought: Gross!

So which is correct?

I think the key to really being an author is that any of the three is correct depending on the circumstances, but my writing really took a leap forward when I finally realized that the third idea was an option.

 

[Russ]

Would this be too much telling?

Nope. Looks fine to me from that aspect.

 

[kennyc]

What's amazing is this: Those new writers have probably also read a lot, but not read well. They've read for enjoyment but not for learning the tools of writing; so, they've missed all the distinctions, the deliberate use of language.
....

Two books that address this (and that I highly recommend):

Reading like a Writer by Francine Prose

The Making of a Story by Alice LaPlante

The key to writing is narration, telling the story, engaging the reader.

There is ton of confusion and bad advice about Showing vs Telling it had me confused for a very long time and I still have plenty to learn.

 

[kennyc]

....
Interesting how this squares with my experience of late. I write first drafts at night, usually during the 2-4 hours just before hitting the sack. I sometimes get a little first-drafting in on weekend days, but I'd guess about 95% or more is at night.

But editing I can seem to do at almost any time of day.

Reminds me of a song.

Spoiler: Words

 

[evolution_rex]

'Show don't tell' usually applies, at least for me, with the current emotions, feelings, and thoughts of the characters. I think implication of a deep universe is great by showing instead of telling as well, but sometimes you just have to throw some history lessons in there.

 

[Penpilot]

It's not about showing or telling. It's about knowing when to show and when to tell. And how the two work together to convey the story in a compelling manner. (What ever the hell that means)

When you think about it, you could consider every sentence telling. "Bob punched the wall." Well that just told me he punched the wall. But what matters is what it's indirectly telling me. He's also mad.

Why is this good? Because that one sentence is doing two jobs. It's conveying an emotion, and it's showing me the expression of that emotion in action. If it's just "Bob was angry", it's stating a fact, which is pretty static and only convey's one thing.

Showing is indirect. Thus, not always clear. And there's a chance the reader may misinterpret something. Showing is generally longer, but it generally conveys more with less words. See Bob example above.

In its simplest form it reveals something simple, like anger in that sentence with Bob. But this is also in some ways the least important form of showing not telling. The concept applies to higher level things like scenes, chapters, and the whole story itself.

On a story level. You could tell the tale of LOTR as so. Frodo and Sam left the Shire with the one ring, met some interesting people and threw it into MT. Doom. The End.

But that's not too engaging. People tend to want have the story shown to them in a way that makes them feel like they experienced it themselves.

Another partition to story level show don't tell is what are you trying to show me with this story as a whole? How good always triumphs? How there's always a price for victory?

Every story shows an idea, a concept, a theme, etc. And the telling of the tale is an argument for or against those things.

On a chapter/scene level

You want to show things about your world, your plot, and your characters to the reader, not tell them about it.

Here's an example I gave in another thread in regards to designing a scene where you want to show the reader a bunch of things.

For example, lets take a random bunch of elements and see how they can be stitched together into one scene.

-comic shop owner
-has trouble with his supplier
-has girlfriend troubles
-gremlins are real
-Vampires are not
-hates Superman
-loves Wolverine
-forgot to pay his rent for his shop
-has heart of gold
-after work he's going to play DnD.

So how do you design a scene that shows all that?

We could start the scene with the comic shop owner, let's call him Bob, behind the counter and on the land-line phone with his supplier. He's been on hold for 15 minutes. He knows they're not busy and are just F-ing with him. A goth-kid walks in dress ups as a vampire. Make up to the nines with fake-blood dripping fangs to match.

Bob's iPhone rings. It's his girlfriend. He presses ignore. He's got to save his fight for the supplier, if and when they pick-up his call again. He notices the goth-kid slipping comic books into their trench coat. A second later the goth-kid makes for the door, but Bob doesn't move.

As soon as the goth-kid grabs the door handle, poof, a guard gremlin appears and jumps on his face. Bob says to the goth-kid, "You either leave here with your face or the comics. Your move." The kid stumbles to Bob and dumps a pile of Superman comics onto the counter. Bob tells the kid if you going to steal, at least steal something good. Not books about that big, blue, wussy. Take a real comic, Wolverine. He hands the kid a stack of old Wolverine comics as well as some old Superman ones and tells them they're on the house.

The goth-kid looks at him stunned and says, "You ain't going to call the cops?"
Bob says, "No. But don't do that again. Else the real monster--" Bob points to the guard gremlin "--will eat the boy dressed as a fake one." Bob jerks his thumb at the door. "You can go now. It's closing time, and I got a DnD game to get to."

The goth-kid leaves, but the landlord comes in and hands Bob an eviction notice.