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Stephanie Meyer vs. Ann Rice

Discussion in 'Novels & Stories' started by Thursday, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Kit

    Kit Maester

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    Good for them!

    Having BEEN a teenage girl, though, I can tell you that many of us spent a lot of time *feeling* dumb even if we were not in fact dumb.
     
  2. Shadoe

    Shadoe Sage

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    Feeling dumb when you're not dumb is infinitely preferable to feeling smart when you are, in reality, dumb.
     
  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    No, that's not an accurate reading in the least.

    The argument that is made, in this thread in elsewhere, is not that the work itself is 'dumb,' but rather that any of the people who are fans of the work are dumb, stupid, idiots, or what have you. Since it is demonstrably not the case that all fans of the work are dumb, stupid, or idiots, there has to be an explanation as to why people would adopt that erroneous viewpoint. It could be jealousy. Frustration (as someone pointed out earlier). Insecurity. A bandwagon mentality. Or something else entirely. But whatever the underlying sentiment, it continually embodies itself as "those people are stupid." Which is rather sad.
     
  4. myrddin173

    myrddin173 Maester

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    Okay let's try to get this thread back on topic. Which is who people prefer Meyer or Rice, not whether the people who like Twilight are "stupid."
     
  5. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    Of course, it is a mistake to assume that every kid (or adult) who likes the series has somehow identified with Bella or some other character in the books. My daughter read the first book at age 13, then quickly devoured the series. She's lost interest now, and hasn't seen the latest movie (whereas she simply HAD to see the first one). But even at the time, as she was reading the first Twilight book, she turned to me and said "Man, Bella is an idiot."

    So yet another fallacy by the people who dislike Twilight is that every girl who reads it will somehow want to be Bella or be negatively affected by it. Ludicrous on its face.
     
  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    OK.

    Having read only the first three Anne Rice books, and only the first Twilight book, I vote for the Anne Rice works being superior. They are better written. They actually interested me (which Twilight did not). And I prefer her treatment of vampires to that of Meyer :)
     
  7. Kit

    Kit Maester

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    Again, I can feel only happiness about teenage girls who aspire to be better than Bella.

    I didn't say they necessarily WANT TO BE Bella, but I think a lot of them can identify with Bella's insecurity. In particular, as regards the romantic theme. Many teenage girls feel that they are stupid, boring, and no teenage boy would ever be interested in them- the idea that someone who is like unto them in this way- and yet has this great romance with this incredibly hot guy (pause for eyeroll) gives them hope that that could be within reach for them too- or at least it's fun to dream about.

    They *know* it's fluff. But it's fun fluff.
     
  8. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    Yes, I agree with both of these statements. These kids are smart. I wasn't commenting to you, but more toward another common objection to the work, even though I quoted your post :)
     
  9. Kit

    Kit Maester

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    I can also comment (again, from the vantage point of having BEEN a teenage girl) that one of the things many of the teen girls liked was that the MC's didn't actually have sex until the 4th book- after they were MARRIED, in fact. And that the teen BOY was the holdout. This is unusual and fascinating in teen culture (both real and fictional). I'm not saying that teen girls aren't interested in sex (the teen pregnancy rate speaks for itself)- but the sad fact is that while many teen girls dream of a Great Romance, the boys mostly just wanted to get into our pants, brag to their buddies about it (whether they had succeeded or not), and then wander off to try to get into someone else's pants. This is a constant source of frustration and disappointment for many teen girls. They swoon for Edward because he is an old-fashioned romantic.
     
  10. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I wish there was more of THIS^ in popular fiction.

    I'm a high school ESL teacher, and my district is #1 in the state for teen pregnancy. There simply is no stigma for being a freshman mom or even an eighth grade mom... in fact, being a mom at 15 is a status symbol. It doesn't help that this corrupted culture is glamorized by so many popular artists and works of modern fiction.

    Any writer who romanticizes the opposite has earned my respect. The vampire genre is STILL not my cup of tea, but I appreciate the direction Meyers has chosen for her main characters.
     
  11. Shadoe

    Shadoe Sage

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    To be accurate, the topic has become about the judgement of the way Twilight fans are perceived and the logic or assumptions used to arrive at that conclusion.
     
  12. Shadoe

    Shadoe Sage

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    It gets worse. Even in my small town there have been several scandals involving a majority of the girls at the high school.

    I don't know that either of the books teaches any real morality, but I think it's easier to view Rice's books as disconnected from reality.
     
  13. Masronyx

    Masronyx Minstrel

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    Let me ask you something and this goes to both you AND Steerpike:

    Why are you basing the intelligence of a person based on what they READ FOR FUN???

    Seriously. I honestly think Twilight is drivel and believe me, I've read better, but stating that Twilight readers are stupid is way out of line and slightly narrow minded, especially if you DON"T know all of the Twilight readers in the world.




     
  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that intelligent people do read and enjoy that particular book. I don't think enjoying it has any bearing on intelligence. That particular viewpoint seems to me to be the province of those who dislike it.
     
  15. Masronyx

    Masronyx Minstrel

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    You are right, but I wanted to bring it to both of your attentions because you both are the main arguers of this. Surely you'd all want to move on to something else. I just hope nobody takes Twilight as gospel...

     
  16. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    I can't imagine why (or how) anyone would. I think the people posting in the thread are in agreement on the original topic (Rice v. Meyer). In general, however, I am pleased for unknown authors who find a big success story on their hands, so in that regard I tip my hat to both Rice and Meyer, who I think were both unknown at the time of their first vampire novel.
     
  17. Masronyx

    Masronyx Minstrel

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    I couldn't agree more. :)

     
  18. Elder the Dwarf

    Elder the Dwarf Maester

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    Honestly I don't think that was ever anyone's real argument. But I see your point.
     
  19. Masronyx

    Masronyx Minstrel

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    True. I just thought the discussion was getting kind of tiring. One of those agree to disagree kind of deals. :cool:

     
  20. Shadoe

    Shadoe Sage

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    Well, you know, I don't like to make assumptions, so I did some research on that topic today. Are Twilight fans really dumb, or is it just the ones I've come across? The question had to be asked, so I had to find an answer.

    But my beef isn't about whether Twilight fans are stupid or not. It's being told my motives are different than what my motives are because someone who doesn't know me at all desires to believe something that has nothing to do with me. Of course, those motivations have been exposed so it all makes much more sense now.
     

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