The Epic Factor

[Finchbearer]

How have you gone about making your fantasy / SF ‘epic’ - if that is the route you have gone down, or how do you think this can be achieved? How have you approached your epic storytelling?

I so far follow multiple characters in different parts of my world, who all have their own plots as such, but whose plots cross over and converge to a larger overarching plot.

 

[Rexenm]

I have a thing about ‘conceptualising’ what the antagonists mean. Don’t ask me where I got that from. And then I go about seeking what the antagonist want. “Weather it be war or bride to be…” Then I seek to think about his/her religion. Smalltown, large city - they be kingdoms of thine own.

 

[Devor]

So, my story is epic.... but also not? The story starts with a cop on a case, but each book in the series is supposed to get bigger as things spiral into an epic journey. There's five countries on one peninsula - think of it as larger than Spain. It's an epic story across these five pretty different countries, but it starts small, and it doesn't do much to cover the rest of the world.

 

[pmmg]

It might be tricky to define an epic... Some definitions would just say, any story that goes over a certain word count (120K or so).

I prefer one that captures a large sweeping tale that covers a lot of ground, in terms or world changes, character changes, people changes, and has themes that span over many different transitions.

How have you gone about making your fantasy / SF ‘epic’ - if that is the route you have gone down, or how do you think this can be achieved? How have you approached your epic storytelling?

So in terms of length...yes, I blew by epic territory at the start of book 2.

In terms of its span, the tale has always been epic. It captures a struggle that is greater than the characters, reaches past the localized lands into a story that has a long history over many lands and many cultures, shows characters from many places trying to cope with the conflict, and has consequences that will live past the lifespans of all of the characters in the book. There are also many threads, many characters with goals, ambitions, and wants, and many characters on an overall growth and change path (and many deaths and sacrifices). There are also big questions floating about. What does it mean to both man and God to be in this great struggle, and how can they overcome?

I would add to that, I tend to write the story in what I would call an epic voice. Which I think fits the feel and tone of the book. What's an epic voice? well, something like what you would get of Mako were telling a story of legends past.

Honestly, if you are not in it for the Epic tale, I dont think book 4 (my current WIP) will be for you. Its the first one that has expanded past the initial set of characters to start showing its effect on all of them.

 

[Finchbearer]

Epic fantasy to me is probably defined by a few things;

Multiple characters who we follow who do not necessarily all know each other, or may never even meet one another, in either a deep third, or omniscient tense / perspective.

A sense of the intricate world building, which is probably the most important factor in epic fantasy. We don’t need infodumps, but we do need a sense of there being a mythology, a history, and for this all to be established before the author even put pen to paper.

There needs to be multiple subplots and one or even two overarching plots, and a prevailing core reason for the story being told in the first place.

A sense of general scale and breadth.

All that aside, I still find myself trying to navigate what it means to write in this genre.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Epic... We've been called epic before. Urban Fantasy tends to keep a tight scope on the setting and characters, and the language is commonly tense, snarky, and quick.

We didn't do that.

The Books of Binding is a multi-generational family saga with settings all over the world and crossing over into many different realms. We have over 500 named series characters, with more popping up every time we plot a book. We currently have 3 books out, the series is planned to have 23, with 4 & 5 being drafted right now. Probably going to be more, because characters don't give a fig about your plans. We have a hidden world of incredible magic, shocking violence, deadly politics, and more immortals with their own baggage and cultural carryover from their youths than you can shake a potentially enchanted stick at. And in the middle of all of this is a trauma surgeon who's gotten addicted to stimulants as she tries to keep her city and her loved ones from being consumed by chaos.

On top of that the way we use language is different from a lot of other UF out there. I'm the drafter and I can not only get wordy, I like performing linguistic gymnastics that frequently verge into "Hey! a bouquet barfed on my keyboard!" territory. Then I take all of that and strap it to a rocket because I do it at a Thriller pace. With Shakespeare, Marlowe, and Carroll sprinked liberally all about, because I'm a masochist.

We've had a few people say we're like Game of Thrones and Jim Butcher had an unholy Urban Fantasy baby. I can live with that.

 

[Mad Swede]

I've seen several different definitions of epic fantasy over the years, but what they all have in common is that the story should have a very large scale with something significant at stake.

I don't set out to write stories like that, but some of my readers think that when taken together my novels and short stories form a sort of epic. Maybe that's because I do have the setting worked out in some detail (in my head) and so hints about the wider world and what's going on tend to creep into the stories. And yes, some of those events in the wider world are linked to what happens in the stories. But I haven't set out to create an overarching story with the fate of the world at stake.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I think Epic Fantasy means different things to different people, which makes it hard to pin it down.

It sometimes simply means a Fantasy story in a pre-modern setting. Basically any fantasy tale before electricity and gunpowder. Or it means a Fantasy story with a lot of words (probably over 150k words), preferably in a series.

Both of those don't really help you much, since they're easy to achieve and don't pin you down as Epic Fantasy. They're too vague and broad to be helpful.

I think the defining feature of Epic Fantasy is the scope of the tale. The fate of the country or world (or galaxy) hangs in the balance. Although it can (and should) be personal to the protagonist, the scope is beyond any one protagonist.

The other aspects of Epic Fantasy usually follow from this starting point. You often need multiple characters to show the scope of the conflict. There are multiple different aspects to threatening the world, which leads to multiple subplots weaving together (though I'd argue that all stories have multiple subplots weaving together, just in a different way...). You can't tell a story of this scale in 50k words, which leads to bigger books, and you often have multiple tales within this conflict which leads to series.

It's also why Urban Fantasy often isn't Epic Fantasy. Urban Fantasy tends to focus on 1 city, with the plot revolving around the characters inside that city. There is rarely a larger scope. Not always though, like in the Books of Binding, which is why A. E. Lowan can refer to her story as Epic.

So if you want to write Epic Fantasy, go for an Epic scope.

 

[Robowen]

I personally use "epic" when referring to film or literature to define something grand in scale. For example a story might have quaint affairs, but the plot features colossal entities, or have a larger-than-life character that enacts superhuman deeds. Those types of things would transport a story into an "epic", by that definition.

 

[Richard Edwards]

Stories that are over 600 or 700 pages. They usuallly are dealing with details that are long enough for the reader to be held interesting with the task set before them Yo have to entice the reader to want to know more about the characters that you are willing or wanting to write about this story.

 

[Incanus]

I think my WIP qualifies as epic, though there may be a factor or two that cuts the other way.

It is a secondary world fantasy setting, and the major conflict is larger than any one character. On the other hand, my three POV characters all know each other and are from the same place. They are often in scenes with each other. The story starts small-ish, but opens out as it progresses. I'm not sure how long it will be yet, but 140-150K sounds about right, with further books in mind.

 

[Incanus]

something like what you would get of Mako were telling a story of legends past.

Do you mean the awesome Japanese actor who was in the Conan movies? And a Robocop movie? And in M*A*S*H, and in one episode of The West Wing? (And a ton of other stuff.)

If so, great idea! That guy had the coolest voice ever.

 

[pmmg]

He did travel. Is most famous, I think, for Conan, Samurai Jack, and Uncle Iro of Avatar.

He was in Robocop? I don't remember him there. Must have been the remake.

Mako

 

[Incanus]

He did travel. Is most famous, I think, for Conan, Samurai Jack, and Uncle Iro of Avatar.

He was in Robocop? I don't remember him there. Must have been the remake.

Mako

That's the guy--he was great. He was in Robocop 3 from the 90's, in a small part. I didn't know there was a remake. I don't know the other items you referenced.

He sure did epic right though---

 

[pmmg]

Well...add samurai jack to your must watch list. Thank me later

 

[pmmg]

And you have to be a dedicated fan to remember him from Robocop 3. I expect that one does not get a lot of re-views.


Anyway...Mako does have epic factor in droves.

 

[Incanus]

Robo 3 is not a very good movie, but Mako is quite memorable, and I marked his presence in it.

I'll have to try to remember Samurai Jack--I'm sort of in between services these days (I was doing Netflix discs, which they finally stopped last year).

 

[pmmg]

Vudu is what I use. I dont have to subscribe. Or...you can get a DVD set from Ebay or amazon.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Well...add samurai jack to your must watch list. Thank me later

I can't recommend this show enough. What an incredible wealth of creativity.

One of the greatest shows ever made.

 

[Finchbearer]

Not gonna lie, that reminds me of the Powerpuff Girls

Edit: Samurai Jack and Powerpuff Girls are in fact set in the same universe.