The Epic Factor

[Jackarandajam]

Robo 3 is not a very good movie, but Mako is quite memorable, and I marked his presence in it.

I'll have to try to remember Samurai Jack--I'm sort of in between services these days (I was doing Netflix discs, which they finally stopped last year).

I just bought the Samurai Jack seasons on prime, but I'll probably get the dvds. One of those shows I could watch one random episode a day and never get tired of

 

[JBCrowson]

My WIP is Epic by most of the definitions used here. Like yours there are many important characters with their own stories and plots, some of whom cross paths with others, some of whom don't. The sub threads (all 14 of them) feed into the two main threads over the series, with a mixture of gods and mortals doing stuff, some of it self serving some of it 'for the greater good'.

One thing I deliberately did was using chapter quotes to give the sense of epicness. These are in the form of quotes from people or books / poems some of whom are characters the reader encounters, while others are from ages past. Another way I used to create the sense of vastness that I think epic fantasy needs is the careful use of remote historical scenes to tie together plot lines that seemed initially to be disparate.

I had a discussion with a developmental editor who really did not like that series structure, and suggested that readers would get turned off if the protagonist from book one is a minor player in book two. I under stood her point (I think) but it would make for a very different series than the one I envisioned and wanted to write. Might it be a more saleable series done her way? Quite possibly - but the artist in me says 'screw the sales, write it pure'.

Don't know if that helps you or not...

 

[pmmg]

MojoJojo was the other great villain of that era.

Samuria Jack also alluded to the star wars universe, which also alluded to ET's and to our own.

 

[Finchbearer]

There is an ape in Samurai Jack who is apparently based off mojojojo

 

[Malik]

How have you gone about making your fantasy / SF ‘epic’ - if that is the route you have gone down, or how do you think this can be achieved? How have you approached your epic storytelling?

I so far follow multiple characters in different parts of my world, who all have their own plots as such, but whose plots cross over and converge to a larger overarching plot.

In "epic" fantasy, the characters' actions should be something that goes down in the world's history books.

This has always been my dividing line between epic fantasy and high fantasy; in high fantasy, the character or characters go about their adventure but don't have a world-rocking effect (e.g. destroying the evil sorcerer, overthrowing a kingdom, stopping a war, saving a princess, discovering a new land, whatever). The "epicness" of a story has to do with the scope of the story and the lasting impact of the characters.

 

[pmmg]

In "epic" fantasy, the characters' actions should be something that goes down in the world's history books.

I think that is the best put definition I have seen for this.


There are several Ape like creatures in Samuari Jack. I'd not know which one, but....I'd not be surprised if the people at Cartoon Network in that day were not all admiring each others work. Mr. Tartakovski did win the rights to do Star Wars next, so he put a little of it in Samurai Jack. Personally, I dont like those type of cross over things, but... With a little bit of eye squinting, you can make everything fit into everything else.

Mr. Jack's story would have covered ground before and after PPG (well, even after is probably less certain), but not during. Given the way SJ ended, The PPG would be way in his future. He would never have known them.

I think there is also cross over to Dexter's Lab, and little Timmy Turner might have been able to make some wishes and been there too. Which is all to say, all of them owe their very existence to Jack. Cause the world was very bleak in deed if he did not get back to past and prevail.


Edit: I think there was a cross over show for Jimmy Neutron as well...

 

[Finchbearer]

In "epic" fantasy, the characters' actions should be something that goes down in the world's history books.

This has always been my dividing line between epic fantasy and high fantasy; in high fantasy, the character or characters go about their adventure but don't have a world-rocking effect (e.g. destroying the evil sorcerer, overthrowing a kingdom, stopping a war, saving a princess, discovering a new land, whatever). The "epicness" of a story has to do with the scope of the story and the lasting impact of the characters.

Ooh, interesting. I like this line of thought.

 

[Finchbearer]

I had a discussion with a developmental editor who really did not like that series structure, and suggested that readers would get turned off if the protagonist from book one is a minor player in book two. I under stood her point (I think) but it would make for a very different series than the one I envisioned and wanted to write. Might it be a more saleable series done her way? Quite possibly - but the artist in me says 'screw the sales, write it pure'.

I am pretty much doing the same thing. In book 1 of my work we follow many characters, but the focus is on one main character. In book 2, we switch the gears a little to a different perspective while the main character from book 1 is still integral to the plot, they simmer in the background. Book 3 is not yet fully developed in my mind but it’s also another shift.

When I think about one of my favourite series The Wire - they pretty much do this. We follow one angle in series 1, only for series 2 to drop in the middle of a host of completely new characters.

I want to aim for that layered and saga like feel. Whether it’ll work out or not, I don’t know. I can only try and make it work.

 

[Malik]

Ooh, interesting. I like this line of thought.

Whole thing in my blog about exactly this and how it plays into prologues, BTW.

Everything You Ever Wanted to Ask about Prologues but were Afraid to Know | Joseph Malik

josephmalik.com

(TLDR: in epic fantasy, the world is a character with its own arc. The prologue is the world's walk-on scene, laying out what the world was like before the events in the story. The purpose of the prologue is to allow the reader to appreciate how much the characters' actions have changed the world by the end. Only epic fantasy needs a prologue. And this is the only reason to have one. End soapbox.)

 

[Finchbearer]

I have planned and drafted the concept for my prologues - or I should say I wasn’t going to include prologues at all, but I’m going to write them now and I’ll see at the end whether they’re the right fit or not. It’s certainly a useful tidbit to remember; that in epic fantasy the prologue can introduce the world as its own character with its own arc is what I’d say I’m going for - but time will tell.

Actually I’d say that Baltimore in The Wire plays exactly this role - screenwriting, but very good screenwriting and a great relatable example.

 

[Malik]

As much as I disliked the books for a myriad of reasons, the introductory scene--effectively a prologue--to Game of Thrones was perfect. If you'd skipped it, you wouldn't know the White Walkers were real; knowledge that throws all of the political infighting and court intrigue--and even the wars--into irrelevance, and therefore changes the entire tone of the series up until the moment the White Walkers are introduced.