To Kill a Hercules

[MoSSurII]

So I'm writing a tragic story where the protagonist has to die trying to kill the main antagonist, the problem lies in the fact that by the end of the story, my protag gets really, really strong and is even shown to be 'unkillable'. What is a way I can actually make her end up dying without conveniently nerfing her for the sake of plot?

Also don't know if this helps, but, the protagonist is strong because she basically becomes a cyborg of sorts and is also the right-hand woman of the antagonist. She wants to kill him because she finds out he is psychologically traumatizing her so that she fully becomes his pawn.

 

[Finchbearer]

I’ve read ‘traumatised woman wants revenge and gets hurt in the process’ too many times, and so I would be asking the questions; is your female character (however robotic) a plot device? Does she drive the plot or does the plot drive her actions? Does she have autonomy and agency, or is she only seen through the eyes of the other characters?

There isn’t really a female equivalent to Hercules.

 

[Penpilot]

This is something only you can answer. You design the character's strengths. You design the character's weaknesses. You know the story best, so you know what fits into the story and and what doesn't.

Because I can simply say, your protagonist has a severer nut allergy and the final battle takes place in a Snickers factor. They're killed when the villain stuffs candy bar into her mouth, but before they go into anaphylaxis, they strike a killing blow, ending the villain's reign of terror .

In some stories, that may fit. In others... many-many others... it turns the story into a farce.

 

[MoSSurII]

I’ve read ‘traumatised woman wants revenge and gets hurt in the process’ too many times, and so I would be asking the questions; is your female character (however robotic) a plot device? Does she drive the plot or does the plot drive her actions? Does she have autonomy and agency, or is she only seen through the eyes of the other characters?

Wow, I've never actually thought of these questions, well atleast I haven't given them the spotlight before. Also I don't really understand. how are these questions related to giving her a proper demise. Could you please elaborate?

There isn’t really a female equivalent to Hercules.

Well personally I don't think her being female would affect my story all that much in this aspect, so if you have any examples of killing overpowered characters (Protagonist or otherwise), I'm all ears.

 

[Diana Silver]

She wants to kill him because she finds out he is psychologically traumatizing her so that she fully becomes his pawn.

Can you help me? Why does she necessarily have to die to kill the antagonist?

I'm going to say some things that I think come close to the remarks Finchbearer had as well:

I'm not enturely sure if this would classify as a tragedy. A tragedy, classically, is a story where the protagonist is undone as a result of their own flaws. But being gaslit and manipulated isn't exactly her flaw, is it?

Unless you make it so that her pride left her wide-open to being manipulated, for instance. Or her burning ambition made her actively ignore all his cruelty until in the end she couldn't even recognize when he was turning that cruelty to her... (This is of course in a way the same thing as checking if she has agency.)
But in these examples I just made up, I feel (and I think you'll do too) how this type of story arcs feel very different on a female character than it would on a male character. For reasons I don't feel like going into, let's just say it's the vibes that are off somehow, to do with the power and agency women typically have in culture and society relative to male heroes. (Doesn't mean you can't make it work, though!)

Either way, I'm not sure there is much catharsis at the end of your story when the final choice of a character is murder & their own death. It feels like the stronger ending might be her overcoming his antagonism in some other way. He could still die, but if his death is the only thing that she is after... that is a goal quite unrelated to her own personal growth or demise.

None of this answers the question you came here to ask. Whether these thoughts are useful fully depends on the story you want to tell. But since you mentioned that you intended to write a tragedy, I thought maybe this would be a relevant take to go into. Take from it what you will.

Ways of killing overpowered characters:
- poison
- her own choice (can an all-powerfull being kill itself? It can, or it wouldn't be all-powerful.)
- a greater power (god of death kinda vibes)
- she gives her antagonist powers equal to her own, so he can kill her (in turn allowing her to kill him)
- she gives up (part of) her powers, turning back into a more mortal state
- ...

 

[MoSSurII]

Can you help me? Why does she necessarily have to die to kill the antagonist?

I wouldn't really say she has die to kill the antagonist, more so she has to die to redeem herself

I'm not enturely sure if this would classify as a tragedy. A tragedy, classically, is a story where the protagonist is undone as a result of their own flaws. But being gaslit and manipulated isn't exactly her flaw, is it?

Unless you make it so that her pride left her wide-open to being manipulated, for instance. Or her burning ambition made her actively ignore all his cruelty until in the end she couldn't even recognize when he was turning that cruelty to her... (This is of course in a way the same thing as checking if she has agency.)

And as you said here, it is true that her flaw is that she's too selfish and ambitious and becomes willing to step on anyone to make it big- so that checks out. Additionally, the antagonist also lures her in with fantasies of grandeur and other things, if you get what I mean.

But in these examples I just made up, I feel (and I think you'll do too) how this type of story arcs feel very different on a female character than it would on a male character. For reasons I don't feel like going into, let's just say it's the vibes that are off somehow, to do with the power and agency women typically have in culture and society relative to male heroes. (Doesn't mean you can't make it work, though!)

Actually this is the sort of feel I want to achieve, I want the reader to feel uncomfortable about their dynamic- similar to Homelander's and Madelyn Stillwell's dynamic in The Boys, except the protagonist's directly involved. So these examples are actually perfect and are already inline with the narrative I currently have going.

Either way, I'm not sure there is much catharsis at the end of your story when the final choice of a character is murder & their own death. It feels like the stronger ending might be her overcoming his antagonism in some other way. He could still die, but if his death is the only thing that she is after... that is a goal quite unrelated to her own personal growth or demise.

None of this answers the question you came here to ask. Whether these thoughts are useful fully depends on the story you want to tell. But since you mentioned that you intended to write a tragedy, I thought maybe this would be a relevant take to go into. Take from it what you will.

Ways of killing overpowered enemies:
- poison
- her own choice (can an all-powerfull being kill itself? It can, or it wouldn't be all-powerful.)
- a greater power (god of death kinda vibes)
- she gives her antagonist powers equal to her own, so he can kill her (in turn allowing her to kill him)
- she gives up (part of) her powers, turning back into a more mortal state

While I do agree that overcoming his antagonism would prove a stronger ending, she still has her own list of cruel acts which can't be left unchecked, so a just ending would also be needed. Additionally wouldn't getting rid of him be overcoming his antagonism? Just saying...

Also don't worry about not answering my original question, the points you made are invaluable and will definietly allow my story to reach new heighs, so thanks for taking the time to write them.

 

[Finchbearer]

It doesn’t sound as though she’s a protagonist then if she’s selfish and lacks empathy. Those questions I asked were in response to you mentioning that the character risks becoming nothing more than a plot device. These are questions I often ask myself too when writing where I’m trying to avoid creating flat characters.

 

[MoSSurII]

It doesn’t sound as though she’s a protagonist then if she’s selfish and lacks empathy.

No, no, trust me she is, she develops into such a character, y'know, and that is supposed to be her downfall.

 

[MoSSurII]

Those questions I asked were in response to you mentioning that the character risks becoming nothing more than a plot device. These are questions I often ask myself too when writing where I’m trying to avoid creating flat characters.

Yeah imma consider these, the last thing anyone would want is their protag of all characters becoming a plot device.

 

[Finchbearer]

No, no, trust me she is, she develops into such a character, y'know, and that is supposed to be her downfall.

I suppose you can have a protagonist who has a bunch of flaws, and if you’re going for a redemption arc then that would make sense. Would the reader root for this character, or is she someone who people love to hate?

 

[MoSSurII]

Well the intention is rooting for her, I'm aiming for someone who isn't the best human being, but her circumstances don't make her a terrible one either. And now that I think about it, 'selfish' is a bit of a strong word, 'morally ambiguous' would be more fitting.

 

[MoSSurII]

Oh right, I completely forgot to mention that her death is more of a sacrifice, now that completely changes the narrative from if she 'just died'. Wow...

 

[pmmg]

The power she absorbs to become powerful enough to kill the baddie is itself fatal to possess.

 

[MoSSurII]

The power she absorbs to become powerful enough to kill the baddie is itself fatal to possess.

ooooh that's a really good idea. How did I not thing of that

 

[Diana Silver]

I wouldn't really say she has die to kill the antagonist, more so she has to die to redeem herself

And as you said here, it is true that her flaw is that she's too selfish and ambitious and becomes willing to step on anyone to make it big- so that checks out. Additionally, the antagonist also lures her in with fantasies of grandeur and other things, if you get what I mean.

Actually this is the sort of feel I want to achieve, I want the reader to feel uncomfortable about their dynamic- similar to Homelander's and Madelyn Stillwell's dynamic in The Boys, except the protagonist's directly involved. So these examples are actually perfect and are already inline with the narrative I currently have going.

While I do agree that overcoming his antagonism would prove a stronger ending, she still has her own list of cruel acts which can't be left unchecked, so a just ending would also be needed. Additionally wouldn't getting rid of him be overcoming his antagonism? Just saying...

Also don't worry about not answering my original question, the points you made are invaluable and will definietly allow my story to reach new heighs, so thanks for taking the time to write them.

Wha, that to me sounds very awesome. Thanks for taking the time to expand on your characters a bit more.

 

[JBCrowson]

What if her death is not strictly death, but giving up the last human part of herself she's been hanging on to e.g. becoming wholly a robot in order to end her antagonist.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

If you're still thinking about an end along the lines of Heracles, why not go with what ended him? Betrayal?

 

[MoSSurII]

Y'all have really provided some invaluable input, I have managed to finalize the ending and I definitely wouldn't have done it you guys' input.
So, thanks a ton!

 

[Prince of Spires]

If you're still thinking about an end along the lines of Heracles, why not go with what ended him? Betrayal?

What's more, when he dies, (after he built his own funeral pire), only his mortal side is burned away, leaving his immortal side (which is then granted god-hood by Zeus.

It's easy to see a parallel with a cyborg who becomes ever less human and in the end gives up her humanity alltogether.

 

[Jackarandajam]

So I'm writing a tragic story where the protagonist has to die trying to kill the main antagonist, the problem lies in the fact that by the end of the story, my protag gets really, really strong and is even shown to be 'unkillable'. What is a way I can actually make her end up dying without conveniently nerfing her for the sake of plot?

Also don't know if this helps, but, the protagonist is strong because she basically becomes a cyborg of sorts and is also the right-hand woman of the antagonist. She wants to kill him because she finds out he is psychologically traumatizing her so that she fully becomes his pawn.

I think if it is the death of the protag, it needs to be foreshadowed from the beginning. Like the feather that falls on the shoulder of the warrior who bathes in the blood of the dragon, making the rest of him impervious. Like Achilles' heel. Like mcbeths prophecy.
Like the king of the nazgul who "no MAN can kill." Establish the loophole, then reveal it.

If the character is cyborg, maybe there is a glitch in their software that they keep ignoring because they don't have time to fix it or it doesn't seem that serious.