Top 10 Stereotypes in Fantasy?

[Jabrosky]

Yeah, but why would you even do that?

I understand why that comparison may seem inappropriate and potentially offensive, but something about the whole "'evil' races lusting after the 'good' races' women" reminds me uncannily of the old racist trope of "black men all wanting to rape white women". I realize that isn't the authors' intention, and of course black people aren't an evil race like stereotypical orcs, but the coincidental similarity between the racist stereotypes and the fantasy trope still unnerves me.

 

[Steerpike]

I think to attribute some degree of racism, even subconscious racism, to every race that's to be viewed in a "disgusting" light is an overreaction.

To say the least. I think it is preposterous, personally, to attach racism, subconscious or otherwise, to each such presentation of a 'race' of creatures in a fantasy setting. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest this is the case in the vast majority of such works, particularly contemporary ones. Labeling such things as a form of racism and trying to attach racial prejudices to area like this does nothing more than trivialize real racism and make it harder for evidence of real racism to be considered seriously by the public at large.

 

[Jabrosky]

I think to attribute some degree of racism, even subconscious racism, to every race that's to be viewed in a "disgusting" light is an overreaction.

You may be right, although honestly the whole idea of an inherently evil race of humanoids does have racist overtones when you think about it. The trope may not be intended to slander real-world ethnic groups, so you could fairly argue that it's a harmless brand of racism that shouldn't upset us, but it still advocates that certain races are somehow inferior and less deserving of empathy to others.

 

[Mindfire]

You may be right, although honestly the whole idea of an inherently evil race of humanoids does have racist overtones when you think about it. The trope may not be intended to slander real-world ethnic groups, so you could fairly argue that it's a harmless brand of racism that shouldn't upset us, but it still advocates that certain races are somehow inferior and less deserving of empathy to others.

Black guy here, and I'm with Steerpike and Devor on this one. I love to hate Always Chaotic Evil races just as much as the next guy. As long as its not boring or poorly done, I think an ACE race is fair game. Best not to attach the stigma of racism to evil orcs and whatnot. Especially if they're actually evil, and not just misunderstood.

 

[Steerpike]

Black guy here, and I'm with Steerpike and Devor on this one. I love to hate Always Chaotic Evil races just as much as the next guy. As long as its not boring or poorly done, I think an ACE race is fair game. Best not to attach the stigma of racism to evil orcs and whatnot. Especially if they're actually evil, and not just misunderstood.

I think some of it is historical. You can look at Robert E. Howard or Tolkien and see some racial depictions that are certainly products of their time. But the idea that someone writing fantasy now, or even in the last 30 or 40 years, is automatically exhibiting some conscious or subconscious racism by having orcs or evil races is a bit much.

In my WIP, the dark-skinned people are the good guys, so I suppose by this reasoning I have some subconscious racism against my own white-skinned ancestors. But I don't.

Funny thing - I'm listening to Townes Van Zandt and the lyrics that came on just as I was writing this are too coincidental not to post:

All things in our life are brothers in the soil and in the sky,
And I believe it with my blood if not my eyes,
I don't know why we can't be brothers here, I know we should be,
Answers don't seem easy, and I'm wondering if they could be.

That pretty much sums up my viewpoint, and going to look for racism where it doesn't exist is counterproductive. It is too important a subject to trivialize in this manner.

And now I'm posting this in the what am I listening to thread

 

[Ireth]

Possible slight inversion in my novels -- the villains in Winter's Queen and its sequel are all Fae, and are lighter-skinned even than the human protagonists (when they're humanoid, at least). The Fae are also not Always Chaotic Evil; for the most part they run the gamut from Lawful Neutral to Chaotic Neutral, with a couple of exceptions falling more in line with Lawful or Neutral Evil, and a couple on the other side in Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good. The closest thing I have to a Chaotic Evil group are Redcaps, and the ultimate Lawful Good would likely be unicorns (if I decide to give them sentience at all). Heck, even the heroes have their moments outside of strictly Lawful Good. Vincent, for one, is perfectly willing to break the law to get his daughter back in Winter's Queen, which gets him into Neutral Good for a moment. Dom also has his own moment in Lawful Neutral territory.

Unfortunately, the Fae do tend to fall into the "'evil' race lusting after the 'good' race's women" trope, but that's only because they often have no other choice if they want to bear children at all. Full-Fae children more often than not are sickly, and are swapped with human babies -- thus the stories of changelings. And it's not just human women who are prey to Fae men: many exclusively-female Fae like the Leannan Sidhe take human men for lovers.

 

[Zak]

1. The "Chosen One". Very annoying.
2. Worlds where technology never advances, even after thousands of years.
3. Horses used like cars.
4. Everyone speaks the same language.
5. Stolden races from LOTR (i.e. elves, dwarves, goblins, etc.)
6. Point-and-shoot magic.
7. The unexperienced protagonist somehow defeats an experienced supporting character in a sword fight.
8. The antagonist(s) is evil with no reason or background whatsoever.
9. Heroes who are utterly selfless and only think of the Greater Good.
10. Magic systems that change when its plot-convenient.

 

[Jo of the South]

1. The prophecy or legend that was told long ago by some wise old man of the "Chosen One" who will one day save their world from evil. (this idea has been the foundation of some great stories, but it has been done waaay to many times.)

2. the mentor character who always seems to die just when the hero needs to take charge and grow up.

3. The evil villain bent on ruling or destroying the world for no reason what so ever. (really? He has no motive at all? even the worst of people have emotions, wants, and desires. Or at the very least a reason to need to be evil.)

4. The selfless hero who fights for good solely because it is the right thing to do. (again, really? He has no true motive at all? No reason to fight?)

5. Vampires and werewolves.....can we please move on. Please! Lol

6. Elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls, and goblins. (they are a huge part of fantasy stories and are cool creatures to have in a story, but that doesn't mean you can't come up with anything new...remember at one point these were new ideas too.)

7. The damsel in distress. (maybe its because I'm a girl, but I never understood why its always the princess who is rescued by the handsome knight. Why can't the princess rescue the knight for a change?)

8. The mighty sword of greatness that was forged in magic fire by the most skilled swordmaker of all time who made said sword for the hero destined to use it to vanquish all evil because only this sword can harm the villain.

9. The journey the hero has to embark on to find the mighty sword of greatness that oh by the way was hidden in the caves of doom where a giant dragon is guarding it.

10. 2 vs 200,000 and the two win. This is soo not realistic and overdone.

Maybe it's just me, but lately I can't seem to find to many stories without these ideas in them. I mean there great ideas, but there not the only way to write interesting plots and characters.

 

[R.S.Robertson]

I'm going to test my epic, the first book of which is Shifting Ground, out on two of the lists.

Well, nothing official but here is my list:

1. That there are exclusively evil races (orcs, troll, etc)
2. That the "good" side suffer emotional setbacks but are generally immortal.
3. That evil manifests itself physically (ie bent back of a warlock, the blind eye of an evil priest, etc)
4. That the good side seem to lack such deformities.
5. That evil is bent on destroying the world (really? Why? So it can have power over nothing?)
6. That an object is the key to overcoming the great evil (think of King Arthur or Rand)
7. That good characters are free of moral flaws
8. The "Haven." Every protaginist flees to some haven to either heal or increase their strength before the vanquish evil.
9. That the guards who stand in front of any room are really just scarecrows dressed in armor (Why do guards die so fast? Why do they never seem to suspect their eminent death?)
10. That the hero has modest roots, usually as a farmer or shepherd.

1. I don't have any exclusively evil races, mostly because I have a hard time seeing how a race, religion or political group can be exclusively evil so I wouldn't know what to base them on.
2. They do suffer emotional setbacks, physical ones too... one important character is blinded in a horrific way... but they aren't immortal, I just haven't decided which ones to kill yet.
3. Nope. My most evil character pretty much looks like a normal guy, the next most evil character, who is handsome in a normal way (as in he's good looking enough but wouldn't be voted sexiest man alive). I don't care for either beautiful or ugly characters as I don't think appearance has anything at all to do with character or their worthiness to be loved or hated.
4. For the short version, see above. The long version: just average people here for the most part, although some do have unique characteristics. My two protagonists have distinct and unusual eyes.
5. Ummmm, yes. But in my defense he has a really good reason! He was the first person ever born (not created but born) and then (not for anything he ever did) he was cursed by being written out of history but have to walk through it until the world ended.
6. Nope, although there are objects that can help. The caveat to my "magical" object is that they both help and harm no matter which side uses them. It's the double-edged sward thing.
7. Nope. No flaws means no character. My "good guys" are flawed all over the place, some of them are dripping with flaws. One of my two male protagonists is addicted to a drug similar to opium and the other has serious anger and revenge issues. One of my female protagonists is exceedingly manipulative.
8. I don't think so, not really anyway. I think though that one of my characters may be taken somewhere safe to heal after being starved, tortured and blinded. Does that count?
9. Nope. Of course, some guards are easier to deal with than others, but really, who wants to hire a wimpy guard? If you know that everyone wants to assassinate you then you're going to want to protect yourself!
10. Not exactly. I have two male protagonists, twins. (Yeah, yeah, I know but I have my reasons) they don't know about their true origins, each for different reasons, so one thinks he's just a guy from modern day American and the other thinks that he an elite soldier/tracker... which basically they are, though they are also more than that.

1. The young hero who starts out as a whiny inexperienced bumpkin, and ends up a powerful wielder of some power he never knew he possessed.
2. The old eccentric mentor who sets the hero on his path.
3. The initially skeptical damsel, who has super skills, but for some reason will still need to be rescued at some point.
4. The epic bad guy whose name is super scary sounding.
5. The surprise relation. “Luke... I AM your father.”
6. The ancient prophecy that singles out our hero as the only person who can take down epic bad guy.
7. The scary witch/voodoo/swamp lady who scares everyone else but for some reason helps the hero.
8. The somewhat ridiculous bard who is there so the author can slip in some “poetry.”
9. The elf/human romance.
10. The item that the hero thinks is useless, but carries around anyway for 967 pages until he realizes that it’s what he needed all along to save the world! Lucky, that.

1. Nope. Neither is whiny or a bumpkin, nor do either suddenly discover they have special powers they didn't know about. Wait... do semi-prophetic dreams that he didn't realize were semi-prophetic count? Any powers they get are given to them or they earn, in which case they will have to figure out how to deal with them as they come along anyway. I do have "magic" of a sort in my world but it's not the bolts-of-fire-from-your-fingers variety.
2. I have a few mentor types and one is old (though he doesn't look as old as he is) and sets the "heroes" on their path but he's not eccentric. I consider this a gimme though because I am sort of following Campbell's Hero's Journey.
3. Nope. I only have one female character who could be considered anything like a damsel and she ends up with more power than anyone else, even though she has to go through some major distress to get there... but nobody rescues her and she's never skeptical, except about people's motives... which is just part of her overall character before the whole distress and become powerful thing.
4. My "Epic Bad Guy" named himself Logan Furlaich though I'm not sure why. I would have picked something scarier if he'd given me the choice.
5. Sort of. I mean, my male protagonists are twins separated at birth and raised in different worlds (again, yeah I know) so when they meet and learn they are twins it's sort of epic to them but it's also not really a big deal in the bigger scheme of things. It's more like, "I wanted the kid dead before he was born so he wouldn't cause me problems and now there are two of them... well, this really sucks but I've got bigger things to worry about right now and they're half way across the country so I'll have to figure it out later."
6. There are prophesies, lots of prophesies about all kinds of things because prophets and prophesies are important to my world. But there's that old saying about there being more than one way for a prophesy to come true.
7. I have a fortune teller who is scary but she will tell anyone's fortune if they pay her fee... and she's a bit part anyway.
8. Nope, no bards. Might be some poetry though, maybe, possibly, probably not... definitely no annoying bard though.
9. Nope, I don't have elves. I have Gods and Goddesses (well, one of each at least), I even have the three fates and a few other odds and ends... no elves, no dwarves (unless you count the really, really short guy), no goblins, halflings, dragons or flying monkeys either.
10. Nope, no excess baggage that turns out to be the one and only item of salvation that the idiotic mentor forgot to mention until only the big evil bad guy was left and then he decides to casually ask, "oh by the way do you still have that mystic pipe cleaner you found in chapter 2?".

 

[Jabrosky]

(maybe its because I'm a girl, but I never understood why its always the princess who is rescued by the handsome knight. Why can't the princess rescue the knight for a change?)

I once attempted a story about a warrior woman questing to bring the man she loved back to life, but it never went anywhere. I still love the idea of a heroine rescuing her man though.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Wow that was really good. Thanks!

 

[Chime85]

I'm not sure about my top 10 (which have yet to be submitted), but I would give my top as follows:

1) Evil minions being some form of animal. These include birds, beasts or a mix of these + human.

2) Harsh weather. When in doubt, throw snow at the lovable hero. I'll give away a point by admitting I a guilty of this very crime.

3) Alchohol = good times. It's odd in fantasy stories, but when beer or wine is involved, it always ends with an upper hand for the characters in question. That aside, it gives a comic relief from an otherwise hard time for the main characters.

4) "don't eat yellow snow". Despite the clear cheap shot at weather again, this is not. I am refering to the usual "don't do whatever makes the enemy stronger" but somehow ends in their, well, end. For those who are still unsure, I refer you to Gremlins 2.

5) The dark lords palace looks like a dump. Not being rude to any budding dark lord, but do you mind picking up as you go? Im tired of finding the bones of lost adventures of nay say when in your corridors. I dont want to find forgotten giant pets, or unmanaged water systems. I want a tower that has simple stairs, with simple suprises. If you've forgotten something, it isnt there!!.......
....And I take two sugars in my tea, thank you very much!

xXx

 

[Caged Maiden]

The worst thing for me is this:

A world-altering dark lord is marching an impossible strong army/ creating ultimate warriors/ etc. and the heroes die again and again. But then, just as the heroes ready for the final battle, a certain suicide mission, a dragon swoops out of the sky/ a god descends from heaven/ a demon from hell opens the earth. And the evil army is vanquished without the heroes dying.

Oh man the scene from Reign of Fire comes to mind... Yeah, no one could kill dragons with their awesome weapons, too bad they didn't try A CROSSBOW!!!

Aak! Really?