What do you think of Action Prologues?

[pmmg]

Basic practice holds that you have 250 words to grab a reader's attention, and every 250 after that you earn. You want the reader asking questions and reading on for the answers. "What's this? What's this? There's conflict everywhere. What's this? What's this? Suddenly, I care." Get to this point, and you stand a much better chance of keeping their attention to The End.

Not saying this is wrong, just adding, that...Someone holding a book in their hand will probably afford more patience than 250 words. While it might be possible to lose them if something is just really bad, I think they will stay through a number of pages before they decide its not happening and not going to.

That probably wont be true for on screen reading though too easy to just click on something else.

Funny, I started a book last night, and, while there was nothing wrong with it, the voice was kind of like Erma Bombeck, and reminded me much of stories aimed at a somewhat younger crowd. I probably grabbed that in about 50 words, and thought....I hope this is not how it all goes.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Ran across this on YouTube and the editor here goes into more detail as to why 250 words is considered enough by most editors and agents in the industry to make a decision about one's submission.

 

[pmmg]

Ah...well, agents and editors are not readers. I would reject fast too if I was one of them.

 

[Ban]

Ran across this on YouTube and the editor here goes into more detail as to why 250 words is considered enough by most editors and agents in the industry to make a decision about one's submission.

All the more reason to self-publish. If one has to constantly light fireworks before the gatekeepers of traditional publishing to keep their attention, that's attention I'm not seeking.

As for the main question of this thread, there's nothing wrong with an action prologue but nothing inherently right either. If it fits the story, does something interesting and is written well, it would be a shame not to have it, but that's all dependent on the rest of the work and how it all ties together.

 

[Devor]

Ah...well, agents and editors are not readers. I would reject fast too if I was one of them.

I'm pretty sure most readers reject things just as fast or even faster. How much attention do you give a book before you decide to not buy it?

 

[Ban]

I'm pretty sure most readers reject things just as fast or even faster. How much attention do you give a book before you decide to not buy it?

Not the person you asked, but quite a bit I'd say, at least in terms of the word count discussed above. I've never rejected a book based on its first page. I may reject reading it based on its genre, cover, description, reviews or author, but if those all seem alright to me I'm willing the give the author the benefit of the doubt.

 

[pmmg]

I'm pretty sure most readers reject things just as fast or even faster. How much attention do you give a book before you decide to not buy it?

For me personally, well...a bit. But I usually buy mostly because it is someone I know, or something that has some significance in my circles. So I am likely to read on even if its bad. But...I do not consider myself a reader, more of a student.

Ppl who read lots of book will likely put it down if its not working, but if they've invested money, they will probably get through chapt 1. I would guess 1 -3 chapters.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

For me personally, well...a bit. But I usually buy mostly because it is someone I know, or something that has some significance in my circles. So I am likely to read on even if its bad. But...I do not consider myself a reader, more of a student.

Ppl who read lots of book will likely put it down if its not working, but if they've invested money, they will probably get through chapt 1. I would guess 1 -3 chapters.

An intern or low-on-the-totem-pole agent or editor is expected to go through the slush pile and find the gems among the dross. That's hundreds of manuscripts a week, on a slow week. It usually creeps closer to numbers in the thousands, especially in this age of e-mail submissions. If they find something while wired on caffeine, candy, and someone else's cheese sandwich, they bump it up the line to a more senior editor who starts the whole process over again.

You get 250 words because that's the average word count of a 12-point, margined, double-spaced page. If you're submitting to an agent, keep all this in mind, because if you can't grab a reader, amateur or professional, on the first page, there is no way they'll give you a whole chapter, much less three. It's gotten easier these days to say no. The Delete button is not your friend, and makes it oh, so easy to then take a break and get a soda. Then on to the next.

 

[pmmg]

An intern or low-on-the-totem-pole agent or editor is expected to go through the slush pile and find the gems among the dross. That's hundreds of manuscripts a week, on a slow week. It usually creeps closer to numbers in the thousands, especially in this age of e-mail submissions. If they find something while wired on caffeine, candy, and someone else's cheese sandwich, they bump it up the line to a more senior editor who starts the whole process over again.

You get 250 words because that's the average word count of a 12-point, margined, double-spaced page. If you're submitting to an agent, keep all this in mind, because if you can't grab a reader, amateur or professional, on the first page, there is no way they'll give you a whole chapter, much less three. It's gotten easier these days to say no. The Delete button is not your friend, and makes it oh, so easy to then take a break and get a soda. Then on to the next.

I am not sure where we disagreed.

 

[Mad Swede]

An intern or low-on-the-totem-pole agent or editor is expected to go through the slush pile and find the gems among the dross. That's hundreds of manuscripts a week, on a slow week. It usually creeps closer to numbers in the thousands, especially in this age of e-mail submissions. If they find something while wired on caffeine, candy, and someone else's cheese sandwich, they bump it up the line to a more senior editor who starts the whole process over again.

You get 250 words because that's the average word count of a 12-point, margined, double-spaced page. If you're submitting to an agent, keep all this in mind, because if you can't grab a reader, amateur or professional, on the first page, there is no way they'll give you a whole chapter, much less three. It's gotten easier these days to say no. The Delete button is not your friend, and makes it oh, so easy to then take a break and get a soda. Then on to the next.

My editor's comment on this is that in some ways it is better if the agent first asks for a synopsis. That gives you 250 words to summarise the book in a suitably inviting way. If you can do that well then it is more likely that the agent will ask for the whole manuscript and then give it a bit more time so that books with a slow open (like Finn Family Moomintroll) get a chance. Which in some ways is an odd comment coming from a Swedish editor given that publishers here tend to ask for the whole manuscript simply because they don't want authors to front load the book towards the first chapter or three in an attempt to sell it (it makes for more editing later in order to get the balance in the book right).

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I am not sure where we disagreed.

Not disagreeing. Just clarifying.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I can discard most books on how they are written in under a page. But, in fairness to those books, I'm not much of a reader anymore, and my editor brain no longer turns off.

That said, when volunteering for the SFWA to screen books for inclusion in their giveaways, I read everything through 20-25 pages, and glanced at the ending and such. First Question: Does the book fit the giveaway? Second question: Can this person write? Third question: Does the story engage? Very few changed my mind past the first couple of pages, but there was a couple.

 

[Ozonequeen]

I have shown my draft to other people and started with an action prologue that showed an important battle in the world's history and introduced important characters who appear later. The feedback I got was that people were lost in the story, and the pace was jarring. Starting with a climax hurt the tension I wanted to build. Additionally, people were more invested in the prologue POV character than the actual main character. This could result from my inexperience as a writer and botching several other elements. What I do know is that I went and redid the opening chapter in my draft to focus more on the main character's daily life and added an action scene at the end and liked it a lot better, and so did the people who read it.

I've read a lot of urban fantasy written in the first person that starts out with an action scene... I'm thinking here of Raven Crossed which began on a 'stake out'. You can do a battle scene in a prologue but I think it's easier to follow if you're only in the mind of one narrator who gives their perspective of the battle before them. Done right, it is exhilarating to be thrown into the action, I think... I generally am bored by stories that don't give me something to care about up front... Not a fantasy but the Lovely Bones begins with the narrator's horrific death. Toni Morrison's 'Paradise' begins with an attack on the Paradise and the line 'They shot the white girl first'. Both stories caught my attention because of the shock of it... Just my two cents as a prolific reader

 

[Prince of Spires]

I always like the comparisson with musicians. Take 2 pianists. One has started playing the piano a year ago. The other is a professional concert pianist with 20 years experience. They both start playing. How long do you think it takes you to tell which is which?

The same goes for writing. Can someone construct a sentence, describe a scene in a way you like and grab you attention? Do you like the writing style? All that is obvious within the first few pages. The thing with the plot, and twists and all that, is that it takes a while to read a story. If you can't stand a writer's style or the way he constructs sentences, then you'll never get to the great plot twist and wonderful resolution because you'll have given up on the writer. The other way round, a novel with average plot twists and resolution can still be a great read if the author's voice speaks to you.

As for how a reader judges a book. When visiting book stores, I'll sometimes just pick up a novel that looks interesting and open it on a random page. If I like what I'm reading and want to continue, then I'll buy the book. If not then I'll put it back. That might actually take less than a page. Fair? Maybe not. Maybe the writer was just unlucky where I opened the book because it was on the one page with a lot of exposition. But I've found that novels I have chosen this way always end up being a great read for me, because I like the author's voice.

It's different online by the way. I rarely look at the sample. But then online I tend to buy books I know I want to read. Discoverability is very different for me. Online I shop because I want to buy book X by author Y. Not because I'm looking for a random next read...

 

[Ankari]

I have shown my draft to other people and started with an action prologue that showed an important battle in the world's history and introduced important characters who appear later. The feedback I got was that people were lost in the story, and the pace was jarring. Starting with a climax hurt the tension I wanted to build. Additionally, people were more invested in the prologue POV character than the actual main character. This could result from my inexperience as a writer and botching several other elements. What I do know is that I went and redid the opening chapter in my draft to focus more on the main character's daily life and added an action scene at the end and liked it a lot better, and so did the people who read it.

I'm not sure why you refer to a prologue as an "action prologue." This may be the first hurdle to overcome.

When writing ,you need to know what information the section you're working on is meant convey to the reader. This includes whatever you wish to reveal of the character, of the world, and of the stakes at play.

Then you need to consider the best way of converting that information in the most immersive way possible. Immersion is when the reader finds empathy with your character(s) and can absorb the information without the writing itself serving as an obstacle.

The prologue is a prologue. If there is action in it, that doesn't modify what it is. A prologue is meant to share some information distant from the main story. Distance can be defined by time or space.

If you're bothered by the criticism of the prologue in that you find there is merit, don't focus on the spice of the dish, focus on the dish itself. Is there too much information? Is there too much unnecessary words? Do the readers have a chance to empathize with a character?