What Makes a good Stoic character good?

[Naruzeldamaster]

In one of my stories I'm writing a stoic character, the hitch is he's spent enough time people watching (In a non creepy way) in his workplace that he's, kind of figured out emotion. He fully admits that emotion in and of itself is still a mystery to him, but he understands the social cues enough to mimic the real thing. (I hope that makes sense, what I mean is he's still robotic as fuck but he can at least 'pretend' to not be stoic if he's in a good mood.) The guy has zero tact for certain things and he will openly admit this. Smarter characters wonder if he really is stoic because he seems almost as emotional as a normal person, but he confirms that he's only imitating based on what little observation data he has on it.

 

[CupofJoe]

I wouldn't call him stoic.
A stoic would be someone who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.
The cliché of British stiff upper lip.
But not someone that doesn't have those feelings.
Your description brings to my mind a presentation of commonly believed autistic traits.

 

[Rexenm]

There are plenty of quote unquote stoic traits…

Basically, it’s up to you, but some characters really resonate with particularity, good or bad.

There are legendary traits, in many tales, but a lackadaisical trait, is more stoic.

 

[Incanus]

I second CupofJoe on this one.

From my understanding, a stoic person feels things the way anyone else would, they just don't show it outwardly.

 

[skip.knox]

Stoicism runs still deeper and wider than that. It is a philosophy, not just a characteristic.

Forget the word for a moment, What you have is a character who is emotionally disconnected, but who has learned certain outward behaviors that he knows how to use. Fine. I hope you have a reason for casting such a character, that he's not merely a novelty, and that you plan to explore the implications, and that they have story reasons for being there. Ooh, speaking of which, you might watch the movie "Being There". It's marvelous.

Anyway, then you say this:
>Smarter characters wonder if he really is stoic
Again, leave the actual term aside, with its historical and philosophical implications. You are saying that other characters recognize his compensatory tactics, which sets up some nice potential for conflict. But you also say these are "smarter" characters, and that sets off some alarm bells for me.

What does intelligence have to do with any of this? In any case, there's a clear implication in these words that being "stoic" -- however you choose to characterize that -- is somehow not intelligent. That others can be more clever than the person themselves and see through the disguise.

Is that really the path you want to take? If so, fine, go for it. But be sure of your ground here. Not only do you risk alienating those who have trouble connecting with others on an emotional level, you risk alienating your "smarter" readers who will spot ham-handedness within the first few pages.

 

[skip.knox]

I guess I'm a bit sensitive to this because I have a character who is a genuine Stoic, or so I like to think I have portrayed him. He's an ogre, a member of a performing troupe, close friend to an elf and a human. Many of the ogres of Altearth follow the philosophy of Stoicism, though they've modified it considerably over the centuries. I'm rather fond of Tusco and when I see "stoic" I tend to jump and land with both feet.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Ignoring the term Stoic for a moment (for the reasons mentioned above), but there are two groups of people who could display the behavior given (actually there are more of course, but I think these two might be useful).

The first group is seen with very intelligent kids (or people on the autism spectrum or leaning towards it). Because their cognitive functions and emotional functions develop at a very different rate to regular kids, there sometimes don't learn how to act on certain feelings. They, as you describe, learn the rules how to behave in certain situations, but they don't internalise that. Rather, they learn that in situation X, you have to do Y. This is partially why they can sometimes feel socially awkward.

The other group is people who, for one reason or another, actually lack feelings. They simply don't experience them. This is a very different thing from the above. Again, these people will often learn what's expected of them in certain given situation, which lets them pretend to be "normal". But they don't experience the world in the same way.

If you want to have a character with such behavior, I would suggest you pick one of these two types, and then research that type. There's probably a lot of content online on both of these. So find your favorite rabbit hole and go down it. The more you can really get into the mind of your character, the better you can make your story.

As an example of such a main character, I think the protagonist of I'm not a serial killer by Dan Wells is what you describe. Though I haven't read it yet, so I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I wouldn't call him stoic.
A stoic would be someone who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.
The cliché of British stiff upper lip.
But not someone that doesn't have those feelings.
Your description brings to my mind a presentation of commonly believed autistic traits.

I mean the thing (outside of his personality) that makes me think he's stoic, is that he's capable of performing inhuman feats of combat strength for someone his age. (Side note: in a world where this kind of thing is 'normal' there's only like, 3 characters in the series with his level of strength, especially once his magic fully awakens again.) His fighting capability goes further than his peers because he although is aware of the pain after, when in battle, he doesn't actually feel it. After the battle is over(depending on the stakes) he has a very dulled reaction to it. In one fight he drives an opponents sword through his one organic hand in order to create an opening. After things have calmed down a bit a character draws attention to that and his response is 'oh, yeah that did happen, ow I guess?' leaving the other characters present with a physical cringe. In the heat of battle he only thinks about the optimum strategy to land him the win, and, depending on his opponent, or the stakes, his survival instincts kind of shut down.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Okay, first things, when engaging in academic discussion - yes, writing craft is academic - the involved parties usually agree about the definitions of the terms being used, so here we go.

Definition of STOIC

Now that's settled we can all start on the same page. You haven't answered the question about how you describe your character. I agree with the others that he's coming across as textbook autistic. Was this intentional? I'm very curious because I'm an autist and an Aspie, and you pretty much described me. I could bench press my own weight in college, and I was known for being disproportionately strong. I one time grabbed a man by his armpits, lifted him off his feet, and pinned him up there. I needed to talk to the guy and he'd proven pretty familiar with hiding. Yes, I am a little aggressive. I'm also not someone you want to hit. Like our "stoic" character in question, I only feel sudden pain long enough to decide I'm still functional, and then the adrenaline kicks in and I am very hard to stop. Please, for the sake of little green apples, don't pull my hair.

My team is also currently in development on a Mid-Range Fantasy and one of the protagonists is a seventeen-year-old autistic girl with an incredible mind, who can look over tomorrow's battlefield and accurately predict how the terrain will impact the ebb and flow of the battle itself. At her side is her tutor and guardian, a 700lb Black pig named Rachelle.

It's proving fascinating in a dark way to study and compare how to write autism from the inside as opposed to taking videos of the owners fleeing. How to Write Autism would make a really interesting title for a book about writing beyond one's comfort zone.

 

[Prince of Spires]

How to Write Autism would make a really interesting title for a book about writing beyond one's comfort zone.

I'd read that, so get writing

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Okay, first things, when engaging in academic discussion - yes, writing craft is academic - the involved parties usually agree about the definitions of the terms being used, so here we go.

Definition of STOIC

Now that's settled we can all start on the same page. You haven't answered the question about how you describe your character. I agree with the others that he's coming across as textbook autistic. Was this intentional? I'm very curious because I'm an autist and an Aspie, and you pretty much described me. I could bench press my own weight in college, and I was known for being disproportionately strong. I one time grabbed a man by his armpits, lifted him off his feet, and pinned him up there. I needed to talk to the guy and he'd proven pretty familiar with hiding. Yes, I am a little aggressive. I'm also not someone you want to hit. Like our "stoic" character in question, I only feel sudden pain long enough to decide I'm still functional, and then the adrenaline kicks in and I am very hard to stop. Please, for the sake of little green apples, don't pull my hair.

My team is also currently in development on a Mid-Range Fantasy and one of the protagonists is a seventeen-year-old autistic girl with an incredible mind, who can look over tomorrow's battlefield and accurately predict how the terrain will impact the ebb and flow of the battle itself. At her side is her tutor and guardian, a 700lb Black pig named Rachelle.

It's proving fascinating in a dark way to study and compare how to write autism from the inside as opposed to taking videos of the owners fleeing. How to Write Autism would make a really interesting title for a book about writing beyond one's comfort zone.

Ok, fair on all points, but can he not be Autistic and Stoic?
He certainly has some traits of both, and I've been writing him as such.
Most of the time he's very cold and distant, like a traditional Stoic/Autistic, but he can pretend emote when he finds it appropriate.
When he talks, there's no emotion in his voice unless he's shouting in anger. Half of what he says is surprising when he's being sarcastic cause it's hard to tell if he's serious or not, due to his usually deadpan tone.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I'd read that, so get writing

Honestly I'd rather read a book on how NOT to write autism. (as in 'if you're writing x form of autism, do NOT do y' )
I'm getting really tired of autistic stereotypes in media and them being so wrong a lot of the time.

 

[pmmg]

The dude sounds like a robot to me.

What is the question here?

Every character is something, and that one of them might be stoic as a simplistic way of stating how the react to things, is not good or bad or anything else. You have asked what can make them a good character. Well...the answer to that is what make any character good? Do they have external and internal goals? do they have agency? Are they genuine? And do they match with what is said about them in the story, with what a reader may know from having access to inner dialog?

I am not sure that attaching the word Stoic to him, makes him anything special of not special. Its just a thing among many.

Do you feel this character is not working for some reason? and why?

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

The dude sounds like a robot to me.

To be fair, three of his four limbs are bio mechanical. And his neutral personality is very robotic, that's the intention though.

What is the question here?

Every character is something, and that one of them might be stoic as a simplistic way of stating how the react to things, is not good or bad or anything else. You have asked what can make them a good character. Well...the answer to that is what make any character good? Do they have external and internal goals? do they have agency? Are they genuine? And do they match with what is said about them in the story, with what a reader may know from having access to inner dialog?

I am not sure that attaching the word Stoic to him, makes him anything special of not special. Its just a thing among many.

I find this a better argument than arguing he should be autistic. I had thought that stoicism is another branch of autism, but that's probably not it. I was thinking that the other characters label him as stoic (Because they have very stereotypical understandings of stoicism, and he displays a lot of those) until they get to know him more. Him coming off as autistic might because I use a little bit of myself to inspire him, and most of the bits I picked were the parts that make me on the spectrum. On my 'best' day you'd barely be able to tell I was autistic unless you were in the know about autism.

Do you feel this character is not working for some reason? and why?

He is working, for what I want him to do, I just haven't written him very much. I'm trying to be very careful about how I portray him because of the autistic notes of his personality, hence asking what makes a good stoic character good. The thing that makes him a bit tricky to write is a lot of the canon characters very much have chaotic personalities, so throwing him into that chaos (even the 'normal' characters have way more 'energy' than he does, if that makes sense) makes him quite socially awkward.