Why Do People Suddenly Hate Superheroes

[BunnyJen90]

I haven't looked into all the details but been seeing a bit about how superhero movies haven't been doing very well in theaters this year, which has me a bit worried as someone who has a bit of a geeky interest in superheroes. While I understand everyone has their rights to like whatever they like it still kind of upsets me that people aren't as into superheroes as they use to be. Like I said I haven't looked into all the details and haven't seen any of the movies myself so I'm wondering why are superheroes getting all the hate all of a sudden.

 

[Gallio]

Personally, I would say it's because there are too many superhero movies. People probably want something different for a change.

 

[CupofJoe]

I don't see hate, but I kind of agree with the screen fatigue. There are only so many times someone superhuman/extra-terrestrial [with or without a cape] can save the earth for it to be interesting.
Spider-man might be the exception as there are a lot of likeable characters and the on-screen chemistry between Holland and Zendaya is wonderful.
But is at least 2 years off.
Personally I'd like to see some fx heavy, fantasy films. I can think of half a dozen book series that could be made in to films.
I'd stay away from the bigger and better know franchises [such DnD - even though I enjoyed the recent film] as there is too much baggage.
While far from perfect [and with some issues] I could see The Elenium Trilogy by David [& Leigh] Eddings, being very filmic.

 

[pmmg]

People have not left superheroes. If the movies and stories were quality, they would still go. But of the two major super hero franchises that show up in theaters, one has nothing to say (DC), and the other (marvel) is heavily engaged in messages against the values of its traditional audience. Both are a recipe for dwindling paying movie goers.

Its not just superheroes. The entire industry is suffering. And for the same reasons.

 

[Finchbearer]

Have you ever heard the phrase ‘flogging a dead horse’?

I think when Marvel or Avengers are into the fifth or sixth film it’s possible that they start to lose their appeal. It’s become a franchise and a way for the box office to assure an income, it’s become nought but a brand where we’re seeing cheesy comic book characters fly around in capes saving the world.

But, the idea is really nothing new. The Legend of King Arthur and that whole chivalric age where gallant men would lead people into battle with noble hopes of becoming heroes of their time, saving the world from evil forces or people. Tolkien was heavily inspired by this narrative - one sole hero to save the world from peril.

Another but - I think since the emergence of things like Game of Thrones where we have a darker more morally grey set of character's who are more true to life and more complex than any superhero could ever hope to be, along with the saga-like Dickensian narrative, people are just less interested in something that is fairly one dimensional.

 

[BunnyJen90]

I suppose I can see where the idea of superheroes can get rather repetitive and people wanting something new after so long. Some superheroes such superman and batman have been around for a very long time about 90 years. Now that's got me thinking as a writer who likes writing fantasy stories where people have super powers how I can make my writing better.

 

[Ned Marcus]

Because the studios keep repeating yesterday's successes instead of trying new things. Constant repetition + not everyone wants to be lectured to on the values the films want to push.

 

[Finchbearer]

I suppose I can see where the idea of superheroes can get rather repetitive and people wanting something new after so long. Some superheroes such superman and batman have been around for a very long time about 90 years. Now that's got me thinking as a writer who likes writing fantasy stories where people have super powers how I can make my writing better.

You say you’re geeky about superheroes, but why haven’t you watched any of the films? Even I’ve watched a few and I’m not into superhero stuff. What draws you to superheroes? I’m just curious.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

The reasons are numerous, but it boils down to a fad is a fad; very few were great cinema, to begin with, and all fads end. Lots of reasons, including politics and a lot of flat-out bad ideas, exacerbated the demise.

A better question might be, why were they so popular for so long? heh heh. I started hating superhero movies a long time ago and was never really a fan of the genre, although I enjoy individual movies. Part of the reason, from what I've seen, is... they suck. But then, most things out of H'Wood have sucked for quite a while. I could babble about the woes of H'Wood for a long time, but it isn't worth it.

 

[Devor]

I also really love the superhero movies. But it seems like there's a few reasons audiences are being put off by them right now.

First, there's been a lot of them. Like a lot. Marvel was trying to pump out four a year, and DC had three that same year. It didn't help that Marvel also did four television shows, which were designed to feel like movies. A scale back of production, and a shift towards long-form television like Daredevil Born Again is supposed to be should help.

Second, the quality of the movies noticeably peaked with Endgame. The recent movies and shows haven't been as bad as some people say they are (all of the Marvel phases also had bummers), but even so, they don't compare with the epic climax that was Endgame. The expectations game has been impossible for them to deal with. Plotlines kind of all feel the same. And even the CGI is suffering because their teams are over taxed (even at DC).

Third, they're all doing multiverse stuff, and.... uhh, Everything Everywhere All At Once did it better. Seriously, right as the multiverse gets going, this movie comes out and blows the whole subgenre out of the park. All things multiversal have been kind of a let down by comparison.

Fourth, politics. Disney was the center of a culture wars spat down in Florida for a while. She-Hulk didn't help - I enjoyed it well enough, but it specifically mocked some of those fans and fueled the backlash. On the other side of the aisle, the diversity bump has clearly ended. The thing with Scarlet Johanson and her lawsuit soured a lot of the people who would normally come out just to support the women stars of the Marvels, as did Disney's attitude towards the recent strikes.

Over at DC, they've had drama over Ezra Miller, Amber Heard, Zach Snyder, Joss Whedon, cancelling Batgirl, cancelling the Arrowverse, and with trying to run new movies even as they're about to reboot the whole franchise. Like is Blue Beetle part of the old universe or the new? Nobody's quite sure. Even the Flash didn't really answer address this stuff because it's Batman references just make it confusing.

Then we've got Sony - oh my Lord what are they doing with characters they clearly don't understand.

It's not all bad, though. Marvel's current plans might be dead in the water, BUT there's reason to think Deadpool 3 will be immune to a lot of this. The X-Men should also pump some life into the MCU. And DC has one shot - just one - to find its footing with Superman, and James Gunn has a track record showing that he understands the characters well.

 

[pmmg]

It's not all bad, though. Marvel's current plans might be dead in the water, BUT there's reason to think Deadpool 3 will be immune to a lot of this. The X-Men should also pump some life into the MCU. And DC has one shot - just one - to find its footing with Superman, and James Gunn has a track record showing that he understands the characters well.

You do pay attention to the industry. I suspect all of these will flop.

 

[Devor]

You do pay attention to the industry. I suspect all of these will flop.

Deadpool 3: No way. The others: I'm optimistic, but they very well could.

 

[pmmg]

Is deadpool part of Disney Marvel? If so, it will flop. If not...maybe.

 

[Devor]

Is deadpool part of Disney Marvel? If so, it will flop. If not...maybe.

Yes, but it's being made in Ryan Reynolds' production company, and he's maintained tight control over the script. It's heavily R rated and brings back Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, who Reynolds' has been making fun of since the first line in the first Deadpool, but they've never been on screen together. So it has a lot going for it and should be fairly sheltered from the drama.

 

[pmmg]

Ryan Reynolds is a loved actor, but the reputational damage from Disney is high. Its not a movie for me personally, but it may take off. If it goes the direction Disney would take it, the word will come out, and it will struggle to make money.

We'll see, right?

 

[Devor]

Ryan Reynolds is a loved actor, but the reputational damage from Disney is high. Its not a movie for me personally, but it may take off. If it goes the direction Disney would take it, the word will come out, and it will struggle to make money.

We'll see, right?

Personally, I want to say you're overstating the political damage, but it'll probably get worse until they get some distance with the upcoming Snow White remake.

 

[pmmg]

Personally, I want to say you're overstating the political damage, but it'll probably get worse until they get some distance with the upcoming Snow White remake.

They should abandon that...but that's their issue not mine.

It more reputational damage, than political, and I dont think Disney will recover in my life time. It might be its overstated, but there is no way to know. It will just play out as it does. The current Wish movie is dead solely on reputational damage. I just saw Napoleon, its not a great movie, but its beating Disney on Disney's home turf, family friendly thanksgiving holiday window.

Marvel movies are dead, not because super-heroes have become less interesting, but because Disney cannot be trusted. They are at war with their core audience over the values they want to promote, and the values their audience will pay for.

DC is also on their road, but they are suffering for a different reason. They have no reason to be on screen. They are just trying to grab money off of Marvel's success. The chaos of their studio is a reflection of this. They should stop, and wait for their time IMO.

Ryan Reynolds, personally, is well liked, and may still attract an audience. Snarky and Yuks is not really my thing, but it is for a lot of people. He may get into the Black, but he's not immune. If he follows Disney into their abyss, he'll be another spending a lot and making little.


I think movies have another long term problem, which is the next generation of creative types are not looking at movies as their medium. They are looking at Video Games and TikTok vids. The talent pool for movies is getting thinner.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Deadpool is the one I give a shot at major box office mojo, but to be blunt, one was enough for me, and I enjoyed #1. #2? I got about a third through, yawned, and turned it off. Jackman as Wolverine has the potential to give it a lift.

But it isn't just Supers gettin the shaft... Indian Jones and Star Wars have sucked it.

What I don't think you can underestimate is how crappy the films will probably be. Politics is only a part of the problem, and it isn't easily fixed heading into a 2024 election year. For series, they don't share any streaming numbers I'd trust, but... they're just shit even if they're pretty. Disney is becoming a franchise murderer. Even Pixar has forgotten their basic formula and kicked out crap.

When I was at UCLA, a screenwriter/instructor told me something I didn't quite believe at the time, and that was that all the talent for writing was leaving H'Wood and moving into TV/New York... More Money and job security! While prestige still resided in H'Wood. About five years after that, I realized she was right. The streaming revolution kicked that into overdrive many years after my escape from H'Wood, but shit, if I was a young writer coming up I'd ignore traditional H'Wood. Hell, I should've been shopping sci-fi channel even back then, but I was a fool. H'Wood has a brain drain and ideology issue (MAYBE) peaking at the same time. Even losing shit-tons of money doesn't teach a lesson anymore, or Kathleen Kennedy would've gotten the boot.

 

[skip.knox]

Overexposure? Maybe. I see it a little differently. When a good movie comes out that tells its story in a new way, or at least in a way that's new to the current generations, then it can be a blockbuster. It's not just that it's good, it's that the element of novelty makes it exciting.

And makes it exciting in a way that is impossibly to duplicate precisely because the next one ain't new. No matter how good it is, it just cannot have the same flavor, the same current of excitement running across the culture.

Star Wars gave us something doubly new. It wasn't just that SF was presented as an adventure, it was those follow-up films. They didn't exactly invent the franchise, but Star Wars was certainly the first blockbuster franchise (pace James Bond). What followed were a plethora of wan imitations. Superman tried for the brass ring, but the follow-on movies were successively worse. Then came the X-Men movie and then came Iron Man and we moved even beyond the franchise to the creation of entire story-telling universes.

It's impossible for Marvel to keep that up. No one can come into the umpteenth MCU movie with a sense of excitement. They come to it with expectations. It's not quite the same as fatigue. Add to that, there's a certain element who will sneer at the twelfth iteration of cool, no matter whether it's movies or clothing or music or what. They pretend to coolness by refusing to be excited by cool. So there's that.

To me, superheroes have entered a new level of existence. They used to be just comic books for children. Then they were comic books for grownups. Then they were movies for geeks. Now they've become modern legends, along with Skywalker and Indiana Jones and the Star Trek universe. I for one am delighted. We live in a time of storytelling greatness.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Part of it I think is that the MCU was a unicorn. It turned out to be way more successful than the creators could have dreamt of before they started. They were lucky to get the right idea at the right time and execute it in exactly the right way. That's not something that can (easily) be replicated. Just look at the attempts by both DC and the Marvel stuff after Endgame to see that they're trying to do the same thing, but because reality changed it's not working as they hoped.

Another thing is that most of the stuff released just isn't very good. It has nothing to do with people being tired of superhero stuff.

This plays into the next bit, which is series fatigue. At some point, people stop caring about watching the next installment of police accademy. Part 5 or 6 in a series just doesn't generate as much hype with a general audience. Especially if what you release isn't good, and if you keep doing the same thing over and over again. This is slightly different with unicorns, which manage to grab an audience and leave them wanting more and more (see Harry Potter for instance). But those are the exceptions, not the rule.

So it's not so much people growing tired of superhero stuff, it's simply things returning to normal. The problem is that the film studios are lagging behind. They're still spending money like they're in the hype phase. And that disconnect creates problems.