Working with a co-author

[wareagle884]

Have any of you ever worked with a co-author on a novel? If so, what challenges did you face and how did you overcome them? Or did you overcome them at all? I ask because I am currently working with someone on a novel and, while we generally agree on the direction the story should go, we disagree on how it should be told (what POV it should be from). I favor first-person while he favors third-person omniscient.

 

[JCFarnham]

If I ever work with some one on a novel I would ask first of all to leave preferences at the door, what I mean is that even if you prefer to write in first person, or third omniscient, that preference isn't necessarily what's best for the story.

Each have their pros and cons naturally, but the main thing for me is this: Does the story need multiple points of view to work? If so then first person isn't usually the natural choice for that. Unless you are willing to jump from head to head (which can confuse/annoy readers if don't badly) you by definition need to stay with the main character and tell only what zhe hears, sees, and experiences.

There exceptions to every rule. If say you chose third person, you could subtly shift the depth of view. It would be easy enough to shift from omniscient, to a single focus limited pov and anywhere in between even for that matter. Orson Scott Card once said that a third person pov can be incredibly flexible, occasionally reading almost exactly like first person "with the wrong pronouns".

Anyway, you two need to be able to compromise. It's not after all what's best or even easiest for the person writing that matters its what the story needs to be.

 

[SeverinR]

I don't understand how to write with someone else.
I know the characters, know where they are going what motivates them, even with the best description for someone else to follow, how can they work together?
Even if the story was worked out together, the two ideas of the same character would be different.

I have read stories co-authored, and they are good, I just don't see how they do it.

I picture authors talking like kids pretending:
Say I was a Prince and you were... and we had a ...."
"Yea, and then pretend we..."

 

[wareagle884]

If I ever work with some one on a novel I would ask first of all to leave preferences at the door, what I mean is that even if you prefer to write in first person, or third omniscient, that preference isn't necessarily what's best for the story.

Each have their pros and cons naturally, but the main thing for me is this: Does the story need multiple points of view to work? If so then first person isn't usually the natural choice for that. Unless you are willing to jump from head to head (which can confuse/annoy readers if don't badly) you by definition need to stay with the main character and tell only what zhe hears, sees, and experiences.

There exceptions to every rule. If say you chose third person, you could subtly shift the depth of view. It would be easy enough to shift from omniscient, to a single focus limited pov and anywhere in between even for that matter. Orson Scott Card once said that a third person pov can be incredibly flexible, occasionally reading almost exactly like first person "with the wrong pronouns".

Anyway, you two need to be able to compromise. It's not after all what's best or even easiest for the person writing that matters its what the story needs to be.

Thanks. Do you think third-person limited might be a good compromise? I'm still new when it comes to writing fantasy fiction so I'm afraid I'm not all that familiar with the pros and cons of each POV.

 

[wareagle884]

I don't understand how to write with someone else.
I know the characters, know where they are going what motivates them, even with the best description for someone else to follow, how can they work together?
Even if the story was worked out together, the two ideas of the same character would be different.

I have read stories co-authored, and they are good, I just don't see how they do it.

I picture authors talking like kids pretending:
Say I was a Prince and you were... and we had a ...."
"Yea, and then pretend we..."

The co-author that I am working with is a cousin of mine. He and I grew up together and share similar thinking when it comes to the fantasy genre. However, we also differ on some things. Him being a family member has its benefits but also its own challenges. Mostly though, we work well together and compliment each others skill sets.

 

[BWFoster78]

Do you think third-person limited might be a good compromise? I'm still new when it comes to writing fantasy fiction so I'm afraid I'm not all that familiar with the pros and cons of each POV.

This really depends on the story. Use first person if you really want to get inside the head of the protagonist.

I will say, however, that most epic fantasy tends to be third person limited.

 

[JCFarnham]

3rd Limited is useful for involving more emotion with out jumping straight into a reported style story. Like 1st it's more or less in the character's head, but I find you can switch between pov characters with greater ease.

With 1st you'll find with out even trying it'll begin to sound like the protagonist hirself is writing the book. Sometimes this isn't wanted of course (because the character doesn't write, wouldn't tell the events of the book to anyone ... or numerous reasons like that), and that's where 3rd limited comes in. You still get the impact and suspense of 1st with all action focused on what the protagonist experiences, but none of the limitation of being stuck with it.

The next level of 3rd person narrative would be a third party that isn't omniscient and can't by definition know what any character is thinking - this is good really only for reported styles. Omniscient can quite simply do anything it wants. And as I said in my last post, even though its not technically a point of view thats "inside" the protagonist's head, the depth can be altered like some kind of continuum.

I write my own fantasy series (urban fantasy) in 1st person. It's limiting in the sense that I can't possibly tell any plot that my protagonist Catherine isn't involved in, but I'm going for a style that reads like a modernisation of those old pulp private eye novels. That's why I use 1st. In my other books I tend to stick to some form of 3rd mainly because thats a sort of default I suppose. In my experience, nearly every child is taught to read and write first and foremost in 3rd person, because for some reason it's become the easiest for us to follow. For this reason its "invisible". It's unlikely a reader will notice a 3rd person narrative (unless their looking for it), and they'll simply read the story. With an extreme point of view like 2nd person however it immediately draws attention to itself, pulling the reader from the plot.

There's a whole bunch of other issues surrounding each point of view, but its not something that's quick to study. Well, I can't speak for others, but personally I'm always finding new ways of using povs. Anything you do in a technical sense needs to be subtle (unless you're writing over the top experimental fiction...), we're telling tales not trying to blast our readers with the ins and outs of our craft

 

[Devor]

I know the characters, know where they are going what motivates them, even with the best description for someone else to follow, how can they work together?

I don't know anything about co-authoring a book, but I had a roommate in college who was trying to get into screenwriting for television. One of the things he said is that after they brainstorm the episode, writers are often assigned to write the rough draft for certain characters or scenes, and then review it a few times with a larger team of writers. Finally the lead writers would step in with the final edits.

I imagine that co-authoring a book would have a similar dynamic, where one person would end up taking point, like an editor, when it comes to the final language. That wouldn't necessarily put that person "in charge," though, as there is a lot of writing to be done leading up to that point and promotional work afterwards.

 

[bbeams32]

I have never tried to write a book with anyone else, but I like the concept of having someone else you can bounce your ideas back and forth with constantly. I would think that outlining the general story and flow of the story could actually benefit from two points of view, though when it came down to writing the story, one taking the lead for writing with the other offering input whether through editing or general opinion.

 

[TWErvin2]

Before you go any further, there should be a contract in place between the two authors, spelling out responsiblities, what happens if one decides to quit, or the venture falters, if an agent or publisher is approached, how it is decided if a contract is agreeable, how will royalties and such be divided, who has say on final edits and revisions, what if one wants to write a sequel in the same world but the other does not...

It is better to have all of this understood in black and white before the venture begins or before someone gets bored or angry or it such a divide builds over the story that neither can agree well enough to move forward. In the end, there is less chance of hurt feelings.

If there is already solid disagreement on the POV, and only an idea for general direction...

A question each co-author would want to ask him/herself is why they desire to co-author a novel.

That's my two cents.

 

[Steerpike]

It's limiting in the sense that I can't possibly tell any plot that my protagonist Catherine isn't involved in, but I'm going for a style that reads like a modernisation of those old pulp private eye novels.

Except that you could switch viewpoint characters if you wanted to show some aspect of the story she is not involved in.

 

[Steerpike]

Before you go any further, there should be a contract in place between the two authors, spelling out responsiblities, what happens if one decides to quit, or the venture falters, if an agent or publisher is approached, how it is decided if a contract is agreeable, how will royalties and such be divided, who has say on final edits and revisions, what if one wants to write a sequel in the same world but the other does not...

^this.


/char

 

[Ophiucha]

I tried it once. We had a few too many artistic disagreements for it to work, though. For me, I don't think I have the right personality for collaborative writing. I either will let the other person make all of the decisions and end up falling more into the role of editor than writer... or I will take full control of the project and basically leave the other person to touch up the dialogue. But I suppose it depends on what we're discussing. I can engage fairly well in a balancing game when it comes to the writing. I could work with anybody on a back and forth about word choice and comma placement. Story, characters, and above all else, tone? That is going to be tougher. I'm rarely inspired by other people's ideas, and I'm a bit too... niche for most people's tastes. I like 30+ yr. old protagonists, pre-established romantic relationships, bittersweet endings, and subplots about cheesemaking. Even my husband, who likes most of the same things I like and dislikes a lot of the same things I dislike, has a very different idea about what makes a good story, and the most we do for each other in regards to our writing is offering simple suggestions (titles, names, etc.) or a bit of copy-editing.

 

[JCFarnham]

Except that you could switch viewpoint characters if you wanted to show some aspect of the story she is not involved in.

Except I couldn't, or won't. We're talking strict 1st person narrative here in a subgenre that doesn't typically switch viewpoints. I know exactly what you're saying, but to switch the 1st person narrator half way through one of these books would be far more detrimental than helpful... and beside the point haha.

I know exactly what you're saying. It's not impossible and is done with some success, but I've already considered the possibilities for my novel and have decided that it's not something I want to get into.

Interestingly enough I do have a pre-chapter 1 section of about 3-4 paragraphs in third person in the second book. I've yet to decide if it works however, and it'll probably get cut for undermining a consistent main viewpoint.