Worldbuilding infodump

[OutsidersEyes]

Thoughts on the history of the world:

At one point there were four races; the Dwarves, the Elves(or something similar), the Dark Elves, and a younger less experienced race called humans. War broke out between the Dwarves and Elves. The humans kept to themselves, lacking any means of standing a chance in that kind of fighting. The Dark Elves also held back until one race won, then proceeded to swoop in and finish off the weakened victor.

So then only Dark Elves and humans existed. The Dark Elves worried about the humans about as much as humans worry about flies. But still they kept away from humans and lived their lives. Until that once incident of the humans building a city in a desert on top of a Dark Elf city. This is the only instance of the two races having much to do with each other. Within the city, they actually do get along okay.

I'm sure this idea is full of holes, but it's a start.

 

[pmmg]

My only comment is that both elves and dark elves would be members of the same race. So its really just three races.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

My only comment is that both elves and dark elves would be members of the same race. So its really just three races.

I would consider them slightly separate, having forked off over time into their own thing. But also a very good reason to have something other than elves to go with dark elves.That way the dark elves would just be 'elves'.

 

[Prince of Spires]

You could also call your original elves Fae, or something like that.

As for size, most fantasy realms aren't actually very big. At least, the stories usually play out in a small-ish area. After all, in a world without modern transport, travelling 1.000km is actually a very difficult task taking months and lengthy preparations probably for most people.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

You could also call your original elves Fae, or something like that.

As for size, most fantasy realms aren't actually very big. At least, the stories usually play out in a small-ish area. After all, in a world without modern transport, travelling 1.000km is actually a very difficult task taking months and lengthy preparations probably for most people.

This is a very good point. On the map I've created, I'm imagining that dwarves would have maybe lived west of the mountains and the Fae(love that idea, thanks!) lived in the mountains. The Elves lived mostly in the desert beside the mountains and the humans had the east coast. The Fae would have been too strong for the Elves to take on until the war with the Dwarves left them victorious but drained of manpower and resources.

Following the war, the Elves would be able to spread west and take advantage of the more lush terrain on the other side of the mountains, keeping the growing human population at a distance. Not to mention they were quick to take over remaining Dwarven cities and start reverse engineering any tech they found. I'm picturing altered Dwarven tech made to run on whatever magic the Elves use.

The elves that remained of their own volition would be the ones to end up in a symbiotic situation with the humans. And the humans use crystals for their tech, like I mentioned. Either distilling aether into a fuel or charging mined crystals to use like batteries. Crystals are needed either way and that's why the humans built a place in the desert; that area is rich with crystals.

Okay, I think that works.

 

[pmmg]

As for size, most fantasy realms aren't actually very big. At least, the stories usually play out in a small-ish area. After all, in a world without modern transport, travelling 1.000km is actually a very difficult task taking months and lengthy preparations probably for most people.

Scale of the world is something I wrestle with. Worse, cause I have drawn a map. On the map, it clearly should take x amount of time to go from A to B, but in the story, it would help if that happened faster. And how far away is so far that it would be out of bounds completely? Part of the joy of being an author is I get to solve these problems, but it would be nice if sometimes there were planes and cars.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

Scale of the world is something I wrestle with. Worse, cause I have drawn a map. On the map, it clearly should take x amount of time to go from A to B, but in the story, it would help if that happened faster. And how far away is so far that it would be out of bounds completely? Part of the joy of being an author is I get to solve these problems, but it would be nice if sometimes there were planes and cars.

I'm actually toying with the idea of the humans inventing airships over time. But I'll probably scrap it.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

An update to this because I'm still thinking it over even with work and life going on.

So the Fae had a war with the Dwarves that they barely won, and the Elves killed the remaining Fae because the Fae were the only existing threat to them. Many elves moved west to take over Dwarven territory and technology.The Desert Elves opted to stay in their home because of the abundance of crystals. But how did the Dwarves, who were roughly as powerful as the Elves, give the Fae so much trouble when the Elves couldn't have? How did the war start in the first place?

In idea: The Dwarves were working on secret tech like a magical WMD situation. Many weapons or just one massive one. The Fae, seeing the rising threat, attacked first. But the weapon(s) was already done and ready. So the war was a close thing. The war destroyed so much that the weapon or weapons were not found, but are only rumor. AKA, I haven't committed to that yet but I like the idea. So the Elves are searching for the tech like it's the Ark of the Covenant while reverse engineering whatever they find. This is causing them to become a bit different in culture and mechanics than the desert elves.

A note about Elven tech vs human tech: The human tech relies on fuel cells using the crystals to distill aether into fuel. So their tech is clunkier and is built with space for the fuel cells. Elves on the other hand have magic so their weapons are sleeker and don't need fuel cells. I'm thinking that maybe they also use the crystals, but more organically as a way to focus energy instead of a technological thing. That keeps the crystals useful to both parties and makes the trade possible.

And of course the Elves adapting Dwarven tech are probably in the middle, using their own weapons alongside bulkier(or maybe they trimmed them down) Dwarven weapons.

 

[FatCat]

Honestly read some philip k dick. Not everything in your world has to be explained, but shown. A lot of people get caught up in how to describe their world instead of telling a story in it. Write a story not an encyclopedia

 

[Prince of Spires]

2 options you could consider:

Option 1 is that it's a rock-paper-scissors kind of situation. Fae beat elves, elves beat dwarves, dwarves beat Fae, that sort of thing. So the dwarves have some technology which is hard for the Fae to counter, but maybe easier for the elves to counter, while the main elven weapons and tactics are easily countered by the Fae.

Option 2 is global politics. Maybe the elves realised the cost fighting the Fae would have, and they chose not to pay this cost, while the dwarves either didn't care about the cost or had no choice. If all three were roughly equal in strength, then the elves maybe realised that the winner of a war between any two parties would be a Phyric victory that would leave the victor ready for slaughter by the third party.

Or the dwarves were capable of concentrating all their power in a single spot, while the elven empire required stationing troops along a far-away border because there were dragons there (or humans or orcs or whatever). Just because you have the same strength on paper doesn't mean you can bring the same strength to a single battle. This is often the reason why empires fail. The British empire probably had enough overall strength to stop the USA from becoming independent at the start of the war, but they couldn't get all that strength to a single place (and probably would have lost other bits if they had).

That sort of idea.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

2 options you could consider:

Option 1 is that it's a rock-paper-scissors kind of situation. Fae beat elves, elves beat dwarves, dwarves beat Fae, that sort of thing. So the dwarves have some technology which is hard for the Fae to counter, but maybe easier for the elves to counter, while the main elven weapons and tactics are easily countered by the Fae.

Option 2 is global politics. Maybe the elves realised the cost fighting the Fae would have, and they chose not to pay this cost, while the dwarves either didn't care about the cost or had no choice. If all three were roughly equal in strength, then the elves maybe realised that the winner of a war between any two parties would be a Phyric victory that would leave the victor ready for slaughter by the third party.

Or the dwarves were capable of concentrating all their power in a single spot, while the elven empire required stationing troops along a far-away border because there were dragons there (or humans or orcs or whatever). Just because you have the same strength on paper doesn't mean you can bring the same strength to a single battle. This is often the reason why empires fail. The British empire probably had enough overall strength to stop the USA from becoming independent at the start of the war, but they couldn't get all that strength to a single place (and probably would have lost other bits if they had).

That sort of idea.

This is all very realistic and I like it. The Dwarves were a smaller empire, so having strength in a single spot would have been easier for them, yes. And while the Dwarves and Elves were both outmatched by the Fae, the Dwarves developing their weapons to take on the Fae would have certainly given them the upper hand if the Fae hadn't learned of it and attacked first. And given that the Fae were used to being the stronger of the three, they probably fought like they assumed they'd win and were a little sloppy at a critical point.

It does beg the question about the Fae's former territory and any technology that might be salvaged, but maybe the Elves were also considering that but more interested in the holy grail of whatever weapon the Dwarves allegedly had.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

Some other things I've been thinking about because I obviously want to develop the world past the desert city, even though since elves and humans just happen to interact in the desert city alone, the other cities will either be purely elven or purely human. I want to avoid the stereotype of a psuedo-London in a gaslamp fantasy setting, so I'm trying to think of anything else.

One city, elven or human, could be one of those fantasy cities consisting entirely of tree houses. The dinosaur or similar-to-dinosaur idea lends itself here if some very dangerous lives on the ground and that's why everything is in the trees. I think the elves that killed off the Fae and now explore Dwarven ruins and tech works well here. Tyrannosaurus did live in forests.

Another concept that I just really like that I want to include, because this world is really just throwing every aesthetic and trope I like together, is jesters. Medieval jesters as comedy and entertainment would be a thing in that world, but I love the idea of something like a 'battle jester'. Palace guards in yet another city that dress very similar to jesters, masks and all. Even different masks for different circumstances. Highly trained guards that are adept at a variety of weapons and seem totally inhuman behind their masks and very neutral body language. They almost never speak, and few people know what they look like under the mask. Their aethernol powered weapons could include fire as an element.

 

[pmmg]

Well...along the lines of the other thread I just posted in, I'm gonna ask, where is the story?

Fleshing out this world does not matter as much as putting a story in it. You can have whatever you like, but...even if you plan it all out, it may never appear in the story.

 

[Queshire]

Turning world building into stories is a skill that can be practiced like any others. It relies on considering how the world building elements you come up with affect people and particularly how it complicates their life.

Battle Jesters for example make me think that with how distinctive their mannerisms and appearance are would have the ability to go incognito by just not dressing up in their jester costume. Such a battle jester would be useful for assassination or other spy stuff. You could have one as an antagonist trying to assassinate someone the protagonists need to protect or you could even have one of the protagonists secretly be a battle jester on long term undercover assignment.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

Turning world building into stories is a skill that can be practiced like any others. It relies on considering how the world building elements you come up with affect people and particularly how it complicates their life.

Battle Jesters for example make me think that with how distinctive their mannerisms and appearance are would have the ability to go incognito by just not dressing up in their jester costume. Such a battle jester would be useful for assassination or other spy stuff. You could have one as an antagonist trying to assassinate someone the protagonists need to protect or you could even have one of the protagonists secretly be a battle jester on long term undercover assignment.

This is a really good idea. But the story is everywhere and nowhere. I'm building the world the write interconnected short stories in, but also just for the sake of building it. And I'm a watercolor painter. I also want to paint scenes and architecture in the world. So it's a source of material for paintings, short stories and just a hobby unto itself.

Another idea is that the jesters are somehow mind controlled, like the Imperius curse. Becoming one could even be the fate of certain condemned people, since you don't see their faces. I'm torn on whether they're controlled or have free will, which would mean things like days off out of costume to have their own lives. And I could write from their pov that way.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

Another consideration. I said that the city is built on or at least very close to the underground elven city. And it's obviously close to the area where the elves mine crystal as the humans had planned to.

I also said it's close to a river like the Nile, for a water source. But I haven't figured out how it's situated around the river. And I have three ideas.

• The city is built where the river forks, or where a fork closes since rivers tend to not split. The elven city was under where they had started building but the human city expanded to both sides of the fork with the city's ruler living apart in the fork itself.
• The city is on one side of the river but not the other. The river could be 1000 feet wide so not bothering to bridge it could be practical.
• The city is on both sides of the river. Islands in the river could help with the bridge situation and little shops and novelties might be found on the islands.

 

[pmmg]

If the city is built on or near the river, and the elves live underground, under the city, the elves would likely be living underwater.

 

[Queshire]

If it was sand or regular soil then I'd agree with you, but I can imagine there being a big ol' hunk of rock on the riverbanks that the elves carved into for their city.

 

[pmmg]

If it was sand or regular soil then I'd agree with you, but I can imagine there being a big ol' hunk of rock on the riverbanks that the elves carved into for their city.

Actually, you do agree with me.

 

[OutsidersEyes]

If the city is built on or near the river, and the elves live underground, under the city, the elves would likely be living underwater.

I've had to consider all of this lately. If the humans had built on top of the river and the elves live directly under that, they'd be perfectly on top of one another and the elves would be under the riverbed. But neither of them did that, that can't work. Or else I don't want to do it that way. I'm thinking the elves lived close enough to the river to use things like underground springs in their city, and if the humans didn't built right on top of them then it was really close by. They'd want access to the above ground springs. And I need to work out the location of the mine relative to the city.