Would magical curses curb violent crimes better than prison sentences or execution?

[Sharad9]

What if in a magical world, people would be punished with curses rather than prison for violent offenses. This would be for crimes people found most despicable (murder, rape, torture, etc) and would be applied by a priest of the religion. The curse would be placed on your soul and force you to feel the suffering of the victim you harmed.The emotional or physical pain of the victim would be transfered to you in a form of "spiritual" agony. This pain would intensify depending on how extreme the crime was; a multiple murderer would feel it more worse than others.

The spiritual agony would be felt by you for as long as it is active, but not be detrimental to you in daily life. You could still walk around, work, and do normal things, but feel pain as you go through it, seeing as how it transcends the physical.The curse would be visible to others, like the mythical mark of Cain from the bible. Self harm is not an option, as the curse prevents you from harming or killing yourself while it is active. It can only be removed by a a priest.

Would thsee kinds of curses be more effective at curbing crimes than prison or execution?

 

[Nomadica]

I think so. Though it would depend on how good society is at catching the bad guys. If there is little chance to get caught then it's still not much of a threat.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Effective, I don't know, but the important thing is, it's an interesting concept with intriguing implications for a story.

 

[elemtilas]

I think so. Though it would depend on how good society is at catching the bad guys. If there is little chance to get caught then it's still not much of a threat.

I think it would be a terribly effective deterrent. But I think it would work best on those people who are already terribly unlikely to commit a crime anyway. For the rest, it might be something of a deterrent until someone comes up with an antidote or a countercurse. Or such a sufferer can bribe a priest to take away the curse. At the very least, it will make such people more wary and defensive, while going about their nefarious activities.

I'd also think, and this might be something interesting to think about integrating, that some people are simply 'soulless' --- no punishment can really touch them because, pathologically, there's nothing for the curse to touch. Ordinary folks might call them defective, but I could see a certain sort of other people who might find this to be an advantageous trait.

Also, some people get off on the pain of others, and even their own pain. They might actually enjoy not only the rush of hurting others, but also the ultimate rush of getting caught and punished...just not too soon!

All that said, I think it's a terribly interesting idea! I don't know how many times I've heard victim's families say things like "I wish you would feel my loved one's pain for the rest of your life!" Well, here they will!

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

That depends on what the goal of the punishment is. Generally, putting a person in prison is a means of preventing it from happening again. This still provides an opportunity to commit murder and if a person is a serial murderer they probably have something broken in them anyways. Then you run into black market magic problems as mentioned.

These problems are not fatal though, just things to consider and to try to counteract.

 

[skip.knox]

There is very little evidence that punishment is a deterrent to crime. But that's a sociological issue, not a story-telling issue.

For story-telling, I think it's an interesting notion. You could explore what happens if someone is wrongly convicted and cursed. Or the issue of fitting the punishment to the crime. Or whether there are different standards for elves versus humans versus werewolves (or whatever creatures your world has). Cool ideal.

 

[RedAngel]

It could be a curse or a blessing depending on how you look at it.

It could be a blessing if everyone received this spell at birth and it prevented crime from ever happening. In adolescence children would learn not to commit such acts well before it was ingrained into their minds that it is not something they should do since they feel everything that they do to others.

Or it could be a curse if the society only doles out this curse to offenders of whatever laws are in place as a future preventitive punishment. But it does not stop the initial crime from happening. But if the effect were to fade, have a time limit, or an on/off switch the offender would just wait until that time to commit any future crimes as there is always a way around the system.

Which brings up the fact that there are curses being controlled by the priesthood. They seem to hold all the cards in this system which would be prone to abuse and corruption. They could task offenders with doing their dirty work and turn off the curses of others or like has been mentioned could lead to them taking bribes.

I also think that some within would have problems with it being forced upon people as even if they could still kill and feel the full pain such acts and events would still happen and I imagine those who could not feel any emotions would in some way enjoy doing those things.

It is certainly a nifty concept you have there op, I for sure would love to see this curse fearing utopian society crumble or vice versa where they clean up their society with such a system.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

An interesting idea. But the deterrence effect comes down to a number of questions. First I can see it being effective with premeditated crimes - like burglary. But what about spur of the moment crimes - like bar fights causing death? A curse won't stop that. Not unless it comes with some sort of behaviour modification. And as has been mentioned, many crimes are committed by people believing they won't be caught. If people believe that, they aren't going to be too worried by the curse. You're only going to worry if you believe there's a good chance you'll be caught. Then there's crimes of desperation - robbing because you're starving. How does the curse deal with that? And your self harm prohibition has limitations too. Maybe you can't cut your wrists, but you can choose to simply not eat or drink.

But the big one as mentioned above, is who's in charge of doling out punishments? Churches - with their moral authority? Remember the witch burnings and stonings? So how does someone avoid the punishment when their crime is being an unmarried woman in a repressive society, or being in love / lust with someone other than your spouse?

Cheers, Greg.

 

[CupofJoe]

It is an interesting idea and it definitely could be written to work.
I could see it being a great plot device and world buiding hook.
How it works in the specifics is up to you.
I supposed my only real issue would be the involvement of the Priests in the legal/punishment system.
If Priests are the only people that have the right or ability to issue such curses, wouldn't the first thing they want to make illegal, be anything that opposes them? Heresy, Apostasy, Schism, Witchcraft, Magic [that isn't theirs] and the like... Talk of reformation or disestablishmentarianism and even theological debate would all be potentially things that some would want to shut down and punish. There would be strong antidisestablishmentarianism forces, wanting and needing the status quo.
In real life, places that intertwine the legal and religious systems don't always have the best record.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

It is an interesting idea and it definitely could be written to work.
I could see it being a great plot device and world buiding hook.
How it works in the specifics is up to you.
I supposed my only real issue would be the involvement of the Priests in the legal/punishment system.
If Priests are the only people that have the right or ability to issue such curses, wouldn't the first thing they want to make illegal, be anything that opposes them? Heresy, Apostasy, Schism, Witchcraft, Magic [that isn't theirs] and the like... Talk of reformation or disestablishmentarianism and even theological debate would all be potentially things that some would want to shut down and punish. There would be strong antidisestablishmentarianism forces, wanting and needing the status quo.
In real life, places that intertwine the legal and religious systems don't always have the best record.

That could make for an interesting story.

 

[K.S. Crooks]

Great idea. I think this would tremendously lower the number of repeat offenders. I don't think first time offenders would be affected. Most offenders know of and understand the suffering they cause their victims. They chose to disregard their empathy. Those who ate amoral wouldn't care about the punishment and would perhaps seek it out as a way to try to experience emotions.

 

[Ban]

I second (or whatever number it is at the moment) what has been said before. The idea is good and it's an interesting alternative to traditional punishment/rehabilitation. Personally I think it could work very well on most offenders. But I do have to emphasize "most". Mental/physical punishment could easily drive someone suffering from narcissism to blame society for what he goes through instead of himself. Such a person would likely grow more violent and detached from reality. Other deeply mentally ill people could be affected in similar ways.

On the other hand the stress induced by these curses could lead to these criminals developing mental illnesses as coping mechanisms. There are very interesting studies done on this but I don't want to go into too much detail because this is probably not the place for it. SO I will just summarize something that might apply to your world. Sometimes when people have been sexually abused in some way they develop a condition known as hypersexuality (Not exclusive to sexual abuse victims). People suffering from this grow extremely promiscuous and sex-obsessed as a way to exert some sort of power and control on what has happened to them. They convince themselves that this is something they wanted all along. I can imagine that if the curse is painful enough, some criminals might develop a form of hyperviolence or perhaps a passion for self-mutilation as a way to take back control in their lives.

 

[Addison]

I'm for "Let the punishment fit the crime". If my kid brother steals my kid sister's ipad, he loses his devices. If my kid sister doesn't clean her room after being told ten times and swearing she has already, then not only must she clean her room she must be in charge of cleaning another room, and so forth.

In fantasy worlds magic curses and such could be applied. Different courts could use the magic-curse system on all crimes, or beginning offenders, or only on the larger crimes. Imagine if a criminal in said world got tried for murder in one court and got years in prison, only for him to murder again in a different kingdom/state/etc, and instead of prison time he was....cursed to feel the physical pain of his victims and the emotional pains of their families for X time. The sentence would be a shock before it was carried out. So heck yeah, curses as sentences is a great idea.

 

[La Volpe]

That depends on what the goal of the punishment is. Generally, putting a person in prison is a means of preventing it from happening again. This still provides an opportunity to commit murder and if a person is a serial murderer they probably have something broken in them anyways. Then you run into black market magic problems as mentioned.

These problems are not fatal though, just things to consider and to try to counteract.

I agree with this.

You might get issues with people continuing their crimes even with the curse. I.e. Badman gets a curse for 10 years. Since he's cursed anyway, he just carries on doing what he's doing. And anyone with a compulsion to kill will not be stopped with the curse. So e.g., if Badman is feeling terrible each day because of the curse, he might go out and kill some people in an effort to feel better if he gets off on that sort of thing.

And the people that might the most affected (e.g. people who wouldn't kill under normal circumstances) probably wouldn't be deterred (much) by curses, since they won't really be thinking when they commit the murder, or they'd be so angry that they don't care.

Or people will just get so high/drunk that they don't feel the pain anymore (if that's possible?).

Furthermore, for humans at least, prison can be worse than a curse. The social isolation and disruption of daily life are parts that wouldn't be affected by the curse. E.g. a crime boss gets cursed, and then just continues running his family business. And he still has access to his family and his job.

Then, you mention:

Self harm is not an option, as the curse prevents you from harming or killing yourself while it is active. It can only be removed by a a priest.

Can you be more specific? Does it, for example, prevent you from jumping off a bridge? Or from getting someone else to kill you (i.e. assisted suicide)? And what about everyday activities that could result in harm, e.g. working in a dangerous job, hanging around with dangerous people, or chopping wood?

 

[glutton]

Can you be more specific? Does it, for example, prevent you from jumping off a bridge? Or from getting someone else to kill you (i.e. assisted suicide)? And what about everyday activities that could result in harm, e.g. working in a dangerous job, hanging around with dangerous people, or chopping wood?

Yeah I'm wondering if somebody tries to go the suicide via mass murder route (ie. killing wantonly until somebody kills you to stop you), will the curse stop them?

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

I'd also like to add a problem with human psychology. Even if something is absolutely terrible, we still tend to get used to it and make it the new normal and so we are less wracked with the pain and torment associated with what was once awful.

 

[Michael K. Eidson]

What if in a magical world, people would be punished with curses rather than prison for violent offenses. This would be for crimes people found most despicable (murder, rape, torture, etc) and would be applied by a priest of the religion. The curse would be placed on your soul and force you to feel the suffering of the victim you harmed.The emotional or physical pain of the victim would be transfered to you in a form of "spiritual" agony. This pain would intensify depending on how extreme the crime was; a multiple murderer would feel it more worse than others.

The spiritual agony would be felt by you for as long as it is active, but not be detrimental to you in daily life. You could still walk around, work, and do normal things, but feel pain as you go through it, seeing as how it transcends the physical.The curse would be visible to others, like the mythical mark of Cain from the bible.

Irl, depression can be detrimental to a person in daily life. Yes, you can walk around, work, and do normal things, hypothetically. But actually doing these things can be next to impossible, depending on the degree of depression. I'd think a curse like that described would make it nearly impossible for a person to contribute anything of value to society, and that rehabilitation would be difficult. If the criminal was psychologically broken and could not be rehabilitated anyway, I'd wonder if the curse would have much impact on them.

Self harm is not an option, as the curse prevents you from harming or killing yourself while it is active. It can only be removed by a a priest.

Instead of using magic to prevent harmful actions after the fact, why not use the same type of magic to prevent crimes before they happen? If people can be stopped from harming themselves, why not stop them from ever harming others too, and be done with it? (As in my WIP.)

Would thsee kinds of curses be more effective at curbing crimes than prison or execution?

I don't see either one as being very effective in deterring crimes. If the crime is not premeditated, there's no thought process about the crime, so the kind of punishment is not even a consideration in the commission of the crime. For a premeditated crime, if a person is willing to commit a crime under threat of life imprisonment or possibly even the death penalty, why would they be deterred by any other punishment you can dream of? They rely on not being caught, and thus not receiving punishment at all. The only way any type of punishment would be an effective deterrent for such persons is if there was no possibility of avoiding it.

And as others have already said above, some criminals might even get off on the pain and suffering they've caused others, which means the curse could actually motivate them to commit more crimes.

 

[skip.knox]

Rather than thinking of it as a deterrent, just think of it as a punishment.

In the Middle Ages there were few jails. Punishment relied heavily on public shame. Branding is a practical alternative to imprisonment; for one thing, it's much cheaper. There was very little thought given to crime prevention, which is rather a modern notion.

In a society where magic is widespread, using it as a way to inflict punishment seems like perfectly natural. I can see a magician putting a kind of magical brand on someone. Make them glow pink. The whole community would know that person as an arsonist, murderer, thief, whatever. More extreme would be a curse that made it impossible to hold anything not given you by someone else. Such unfortunates might have to retreat to a monastery or other charitable institution, relying on them for their very lives until the termination of the curse.

But prevention? I wouldn't bother.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Make them glow pink. The whole community would know that person as an arsonist, murderer, thief, whatever.

There's a book just like that:

When She Woke by Hillary Jordan ? Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists

 

[Gurkhal]

EDITED: Forget about it.