Another speech tag thread, sorry

[Trick]

I think this is a new question in this vein though. Or at least, it's a twist on an old one.

I am usually against colorful/non-said speech tags. Especially this kind, "What!" he shouted or "What?" he asked because they're redundant. However, what if there is a short question and you preface it with a colorful/non-said speech tag?

ie.

I shouted, "Who is Ikthar?" (EDIT: I'm also considering: I surprised myself by shouting, "Who is Ikthar?")

I don't like it the other way around and at this point my FP MC is switching from scared sh*tless to annoyed and arrogant so it's not immediately apparent what tone he would be using here. The sentence is a simple question that could be said in a myriad of ways. I'm also not a fan of the double punctuation ("What!?") because I think it's distracting.

Please help...

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think "shouted" is actually your problem word. It doesn't do enough to communicate your MC's emotional state, imo. Maybe something like

"Who is Ikthar?" I demanded, surprising myself.

 

[Trick]

"Who is Ikthar?" I demanded, surprising myself.

That is better. Not sure it's exactly how I'll do it but it's an improvement for sure.

 

[Penpilot]

Here's my suggestion. Try setting the scene with descriptions that let the reader know what has happened.

Maybe something like this.

My voice rose. "Who is Ikthar?" The others around me jumped, surprised by the force of the question. To tell the truth, the force of the words surprised even myself.

 

[Trick]

Incorporating the ideas I've been given, here it is with a few lines from before and after to put it in context:

~ My head sagged to my chest, "I owed somebody money."

"Somebody worse than Ikthar?" Sarko said, laughing and getting off the floor.

My voice rose, "Who is Ikthar?" I demanded, surprising myself with the force of the question.

Sarko rounded on me like an angry watch dog, "He's only the bloody kingpin! The chief racketeer! He owns the docks, the brothels, the bars! He's the bleeding keeper of crime!" His face grew even redder, something I didn't think was possible for a Haeburn Islander. ~

How's that?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Better. I like Sarko's description and your MC comes through a bit better. But remember to raise your character's head as he raises his voice - body language also speaks volumes and you still have him sagging. Writing is a lot like stage directing.

 

[Trick]

Better. I like Sarko's description and your MC comes through a bit better. But remember to raise your character's head as he raises his voice - body language also speaks volumes and you still have him sagging. Writing is a lot like stage directing.

Too true! okay: (BTW, he's chained to a chair which is made apparent beforehand.)

~ I raised my head and lurched forward, straining against my bonds, "Who is Ikthar?" I demanded, surprising myself with the force of the question. ~

to think, this started as: I shouted, "Who is Ikthar?"

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Beautiful! Much better. That really gets the emotion across. I like that a lot.

 

[Addison]

Remember that people speak with more than their voice in two words: Body-Language. If a person kicks a door down you know they're not happy. If they run out of the room crying you know they're upset. They stiffen up, they're angry. Use that and also subtle changes to the environment, "every speck of light was focused on her." "He saw people's lips moving but he couldn't hear anything over the blood pounding through his ears."

Speak with more than voice.

 

[BWFoster78]

FYI, for what it's worth: I am one of the biggest advocates on this board for using only "said." However, I have no problem at all with words like shouted, whispered, muttered, etc.

Basically, if you feel the need to convey how a line of dialogue is uttered, I'd prefer a single descriptive verb than said + adverb.

Example:

"Stop that," he said softly.

is, imo, weaker than:

"Stop that," he whispered.

As to the advice above: Using beats is a fantastic way to indicate a speaker while filling the conversation with motion and emotion. However, there are times and places where using a speech tag is appropriate. If you need the tag, it's perfectly acceptable to use it.

 

[wordwalker]

I've said it before, just keep in mind you have four options:

• No tag-- if the alternation (or content) makes it clear
• "Said"-- adds little but risks almost nothing
• "Supersaid" (said faintly/ exclaimed/ etc)-- clearer but very easy to overuse
• Beat ("He drew his sword.")-- strongest but takes more work to write

Most of it's just not using any one of them too much (and #3 gets old fastest, but even Said gets wooden if it goes too far) or at a time when it doesn't fit.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I've said it before, just keep in mind you have four options:

[*]No tag-- if the alternation (or content) makes it clear
[*]"Said"-- adds little but risks almost nothing
[*]"Supersaid" (said faintly/ exclaimed/ etc)-- clearer but very easy to overuse
[*]Beat ("He drew his sword.")-- strongest but takes more work to write

Most of it's just not using any one of them too much (and #3 gets old fastest, but even Said gets wooden if it goes too far) or at a time when it doesn't fit.

#3 is one I refuse to use. It's extremely lazy to use a weak modifier for "said" & it saps energy and power from writing.

 

[wordwalker]

#3 is one I refuse to use. It's extremely lazy to use a weak modifier for "said" & it saps energy and power from writing.

I mostly agree, but anyone who makes sweeping statements is a blithering idiot. (--um, let me rephrase that...)

I think each moment of dialog needs its own amount of emphasis, some little and some more. And, some need extra clarity--someone may not speak in quite the tone you'd first expect--but the line doesn't need a fully written out Beat, so the dreaded adverb or other verb is the best compromise. I do everything I can to fudge toward using either less than that or more, but now and then it still seems right. Rarely.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I agree with BW. The worst is where you read:

"Which do you prefer?" Annie asked.

"Sprinkles," I retorted. "I don't like Boston cream."

"Really?" she rebutted, handing me the chocolate one. "I love Boston cream!" she exclaimed.

"My mother used to buy me chocolate donuts every Sunday after church," I elaborated. "To this day, they remind me of Sundays," I lamented.


It would be better:

"Which to you prefer?" Annie left the question hanging in the air.

"Sprinkles," I said, pointing at the chocolate donut. "I don't like Boston cream."

"Really?" She handed me the chocolate one. "I love Boston cream!"

My mouth watered. "My mother used to buy me chocolate donuts every Sunday after church. To this day they remind me of Sundays."

I remember reading a thing about Twilight, and how many non-said words she used. Not only that, but so many of her dialogue tags weren't even dialogue tags

I think "said" is mostly appropriate. I, however, try to use it seldom. I prefer to do:

Natalie's hand came up to stop Katie's arm. "Please don't touch my bike."

What in the world was Bill thinking? "Do you really want to cross that broken, rickety bridge?"

"Where do we go now?" Marie's question echoed what we all were surely thinking.

"Are you sure you locked the door?" I asked. I'd seen him leave it open a hundred times and was just sure he'd done it again.


There are TONS of ways to convey thoughts and speech without doing line after line of "said". I'm not the strongest writer, but I'm really confident in my dialogues (the strongest portion of my work). One of the things that make them strong are the pacing, often reliant on how I convey who's speaking.

I think character interactions are one of the quickest indicators of how good a writer is. While a newbie will use a very limited tool box, great writers will seamlessly put together an interaction that not only conveys things clearly, but also flows well because of how they put in dialogue tags.

For instance, even when a dialogue tag isn't necessary, it can be used to slow down a scene, let a bit of information sink in for the reader. Example:

"Did you hear that?" Mark whispered. His eyes searched the dark yard for signs of movement. "I'm sure I heard something.


I could have easily written it:

Mark looked around the dark yard. "Did you hear that? I'm sure I heard something."

For me, the second one is a weak example of writing, something I'd expect to see in my first drafts. It's poorly paced to establish drama and certainly doesn't convey the feeling the POV feels. SO for me, there's two problems. One, that it's not deep POV, because we're only minimally submerged as a reader, but two, that the pacing actually detracts from the scene, rather than supporting it in tone. In the first example, by putting words between Mark's two lines, we're actually creating a dramatic pause. So during that pause, the reader is actually developing thoughts and feelings of their own, rather than being rushed right into another spoken sentence, where I'm feeding them information. SO those dramatic pauses are important things to consider when writing character interactions.

When I'm talking to my husband, for example, we rarely fire off responses in rapid succession. Instead, people stop and consider a moment. Or, they stare, expecting an answer after a question. By allowing your spoken lines to have a little rest between them you actually create a realistic feeling to the scene, because that's how real people interact.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I mostly agree, but anyone who makes sweeping statements is a blithering idiot. (--um, let me rephrase that...)

I think each moment of dialog needs its own amount of emphasis, some little and some more. And, some need extra clarity--someone may not speak in quite the tone you'd first expect--but the line doesn't need a fully written out Beat, so the dreaded adverb or other verb is the best compromise. I do everything I can to fudge toward using either less than that or more, but now and then it still seems right. Rarely.

There's no rule that anyone has to follow. My views apply to my writing alone, and therefore it can be as strict or as sweeping as the style I want to write in dictates. Someone else may think they're fabulous tags & that's fine...for them. In my view, it's a lazy way to tag and it weakens the emotional connection of the reader. I don't like to read tags done that way & I won't write with them. I'm not alone in that line of thinking.

Never use an adverb to modify the word "said". - Elmore Leonard

EDIT- After a few reads, I see you were making a sweeping statement about people making sweeping statements. The cheeky/joking intent wasn't picked up on the first time through. Apologies for the inference.

 

[BWFoster78]

"Sprinkles," I said, pointing at the chocolate donut. "I don't like Boston cream."

This is actually one of my pet peeves, combining a tag and a beat.

Using "said" here is completely extraneous (as opposed, I suppose, to being only somewhat extraneous).

I'd write it:

"Sprinkles," I pointed at the chocolate donut. "I don't like Boston cream."

 

[BWFoster78]

T.Allen,

Combining an adverb with "said" grates on my nerves as well, so I get you. I can't say, however, that I'd "never" use it. Every line written is a unique experience that isthe result of loads of tiny decisions. I can't foresee why I might consider using an adverb there to be a good idea, but I can't rule it out. Too hard to prove a negative.

 

[Devor]

I think there's two great reasons to use a speech tag.

- Modify or match the tone of the dialogue. Your dialogue should almost always be clear enough without the modifier, so if that's why you need a speech tag, fix that first. In general, this is when you use words like whispered, shouted and called out because said comes across like you're just having a chat.

- Transition from the dialogue to the narrative for better flow. "Said" might be invisible, but it doesn't build momentum. If there's a lot going on outside the dialogue, another word might be helpful for keeping a strong pace.

Then there's words like "asked," "replied," and slightly more descriptive words like "groaned" or "muttered," which are a single-step in tone away from "said." That is, if people are just having a chat, sometimes these words might fit. My thoughts? If you find yourself typing them, then type them. If you don't, then don't. Readers will get used to your writing voice after all. There's bigger things to worry about.

I can't foresee why I might consider using an adverb there to be a good idea, but I can't rule it out. Too hard to prove a negative.

The only one I can think of, off the top of my head, is "said softly," used in a romantic moment. There's not a good speech tag for it (murmur/etc all have different connotations), and just "said" might not do the romance justice.

((edit)) Apparently "said softly" was an example you used, but it's not really the same as a whisper. A whisper actually changes your voice a lot. In a romantic moment especially, you might be talking about a normal voice that has no power to it at all. There's not a good choice for it.

 

[BWFoster78]

My thoughts? If you find yourself typing them, then type them. If you don't, then don't. Readers will get used to your writing voice after all. There's bigger things to worry about.

On one hand, I agree. There are much more important things to worry about. Truthfully, most readers either won't know the difference or won't care.

On the other hand, if there is a "right" way to do it, I want to do it that way.

To me, using "asked" with a question mark is redundant. Using "replied" when the line obviously addresses the immediately prior statement is redundant.

In my mind, redundancy is bad. I simply cannot advocate, even if it's in something so minor that no one will notice, that someone do something that is bad.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

The only one I can think of, off the top of my head, is "said softly," used in a romantic moment. There's not a good speech tag for it (murmur/etc all have different connotations), and just "said" might not do the romance justice.

There's hundreds of ways to get across the tenderness of the romantic moment, the soft tone of voice, or any other perception. Adding an adverb to said only gives the writer two things. First, an economy of words. If for some reason you had to limit word count, then maybe I could see it. Still, I wouldn't do it myself. Second, it's an easier way to write, which is why I consider it lazy description.

Writers think modifying "said" gives the reader information they need, and therefore the use is justified. I disagree. If it's necessary information then it deserves proper description. What does "said softly" really give your reader? "Softly" could have many meanings. By itself it tells your reader nothing specific. It lacks clarity & steals emotion and power from the scene due to the unimaginative, nonspecific, and weak language. A writer is better off trying to depict the emotion of the scene through actions and dialogue.

One might argue, "The mention of the softness of voice isn't important enough for the number of words it'd take to get it across to the reader in other ways." If it's not important enough to deserve better description than "said softly" then your reader doesn't need the information anyway & it's unnecessary to write.