Is it possible to write a literary fantasy book?

[JBCrowson]

By this I don't mean can a person write such a book - we can write any kind of book, and someone out there probably has. What I mean is "is it possible in todays publishing environment, to have such a book accepted for publication and marketed as such?"

My sense is probably no. In part because of prejudice against fantasy as a genre. In part because the market for such a novel would be very niche - fantasy has a following that I would guess has a small overlap with the following of literary fiction.

 

[Finchbearer]

Yes, absolutely. I’ve read what could be described as ‘literary fantasy’ - somewhat genre defying, and I imagine you’d have to find the right channels to promote the work, be that with a literary agent or indie. And…for it to be taken seriously as a piece of ‘literary work’, it would need to be *ahem* well written.

 

[JBCrowson]

Yes, absolutely. I’ve read what could be described as ‘literary fantasy’ - somewhat genre defying, and I imagine you’d have to find the right channels to promote the work, be that with a literary agent or indie. And…for it to be taken seriously as a piece of ‘literary work’, it would need to be *ahem* well written.

What book would you consider literary fantasy? (I have my own thoughts on this).

 

[Finchbearer]

I’ll give you some examples of ‘literary fantasy’ that I’ve read, and I’ll tell you why I think they could easily fit into this category;

Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrell - Susanna Clarke
The Buried Giant - Kazuo Ishiguro
Once Upon a River - Diane Setterfield
Piranesi -Susanna Clarke
The Bear and the Nightingale - Katherine Arden
The Binding - Brigit Collins


Essentially all of these books have been traditionally published and could also be described as neither solely belonging in either general fiction or fantasy, but have the ability to cross genres or defy genres altogether - but all contain fantasy elements to a greater of lesser extent. You might have people who don’t usually go for fantasy read them.

All have also been bestsellers and have done the major marketing rounds.

 

[Incanus]

I'd say no as well.

From what I've learned about this, the two camps are mutually exclusive. The literary school is strictly about realism.

I'm a bit down on the literary camp myself. I agree with one of my favorite writers who referred to it as 'human incest stories'. The obsessiveness of reflecting the human condition often strikes me as pretentious.

 

[JBCrowson]

I'd say no as well.

From what I've learned about this, the two camps are mutually exclusive. The literary school is strictly about realism.

I'm a bit down on the literary camp myself. I agree with one of my favorite writers who referred to it as 'human incest stories'. The obsessiveness of reflecting the human condition often strikes me as pretentious.

I've always thought good fantasy could cross with any other genre - some like romance and detective are easier to 'see'. I think reflecting on the human condition is something fantasy is well placed to do, since it could observe from without as well as within.

The reality element of literary fiction is pretentious in my view. If there is no objective reality, only an internal construct we each make and re-make for ourselves every waking second (which is essentially what neuroscience is now saying), then the realities we create in our fantasy world are no less valid than the external world we live and move in. I would explain that further by saying if realworld is created in our heads then a fantasy world created in our head is not categorically different. A work of fiction is necessarily not set in the real world - the true realworld only has in it people who are alive or have lived, things that have actually been made, places that exist, all as a result of the actions of the people who made/inhabit/visit them. As soon as you invent a person who has never lived you're no longer in the realworld, you're in a fantasy version of it.

 

[pmmg]

I dont know. I suppose its just how you choose to define the word.

Literary tends to mean something opposite of genre fiction, which....most fantasy kind of is. I suppose I could point to some things that straddle the line.

But...You know... Literary fiction may sit up there on some snobbish-like hill, but it would be hard to point to a book that has had more success and impact than LOTR. To say it has not earned its place as among the great books of the world would be ridiculous. A lot of literary works could not claim that...which is all to say, I okay being on my side of the equation, which I am sure is Genre fiction.

However, in answer to the question: is it possible in todays publishing environment, to have such a book accepted for publication and marketed as such?

Sure, anything is possible... but, I'm not sure this is a worthy goal. I dont really care if I am considered literary or not.

 

[JBCrowson]

I dont know. I suppose its just how you choose to define the word.

Literary tends to mean something opposite of genre fiction, which....most fantasy kind of is. I suppose I could point to some things that straddle the line.

But...You know... Literary fiction may sit up there on some snobbish-like hill, but it would be hard to point to a book that has had more success and impact than LOTR. To say it has not earned its place as among the great books of the world would be ridiculous. A lot of literary works could not claim that...which is all to say, I okay being on my side of the equation, which I am sure is Genre fiction.

However, in answer to the question: is it possible in todays publishing environment, to have such a book accepted for publication and marketed as such?

Sure, anything is possible... but, I'm not sure this is a worthy goal. I dont really care if I am considered literary or not.

I agree with the idea of the snobbish hill of literary fiction, from which some chose (wrongly in my view) to look down on other works. I've always been somewhat against snobbish elites, particularly since I work in one. So the idea of "proving them all wrong" has an appeal to me. For clarity I would not consider my WIP as literary fiction or a fantasy-literary cross. I guess I'm still that teenager who didn't like to be told what he can and can't do (sigh).

 

[Jackarandajam]

The road - Cormac Mccarthy

While this is Post-Apocalyptic Fantasy, it still counts as Literary Fantasy. Got a Pulitzer and a James Tait Black.

I think literary fantasy is perfectly feasible, but I can't speak for the gate keepers.

Most literature uses easily recognizable backdrops to tell deep, complicated stories about psychology. I wonder if the lack of lit fantasy has something to do with the tedium of world-building not lending itself to literary style and/or structure?

I think we'll see it soon. The Joker was essentially a Marvel Arthouse film, and I see the idea of literary fantasy doing the same thing: taking fantasy tropes recognizable enough they don't need alot of explanation and writing about something else with that as the backdrop.

 

[Mad Swede]

My editor has a somewhat jaundiced view of literary fiction. In her more cynical moments she says that literary fiction is whatever the current most influential literary critics define it to be (by which she means they decide whether a work is literary fiction or not). When she's feeling less cyncical she says that literary fiction focuses on (written) style, theme(s) and character - in that order. That means, of course, that fiction in any genre or mix of genres could be regarded as literary fiction if written in the right way.

But, my editor also says that the focus on written style and theme tends to mean that literary fiction doesn't sell all that well simply because most such books are hard to read, and since most people buy books to read for pleasure and relaxation they tend not buy literary fiction. There are, of course, exceptions to that, quite a few of them. But my editor, being somewhat cynical, also questions how many people really finish reading that best selling work of literary fiction they've just bought.

So to answer your question, yes a fantasy story written as literary fiction could be picked up for publication and marketed as literary fiction. There are quite a few smaller Swedish publishers who would do so. No, I don't write literary fiction.

 

[Incanus]

There's a great book that touches on this subject somewhat:

J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century, by Tom Shippey.

In the lengthy introduction, he shows how the Tolkien critics not only got it wrong, but got it spectacularly wrong. I'd say it is the literary criticism equivalent of slipping on a banana peel, dunking your head in a vat of honey, crashing into a hive of angry bees, rolling down three flights of steps, and face-planting right in the gutter.

It is in equal measure funny and pathetic.

 

[Finchbearer]

I don’t think Tolkien at the time was taken seriously as a fiction writer. His work I believe was considered pulpy. I don’t think his work could be considered ‘literary’.

Anyway, the more I read and write and discover how the industry works I am not convinced that ‘snob hill’ exists.

Literary agents it would seem go in for two things; acclaim and profit. Some might specialise in genre fiction that is just going to be a stalwart bestseller, and it doesn’t necessarily matter if the book is ‘well written’ or not, and others might go looking for the next prize winning author. Sure, there are snobs everywhere, best avoid them.

 

[Incanus]

Well, the literary 'elite' despise Tolkien to this day, and for a sort of good reason: he showed them how wrong their theories of literature were. They have not forgiven him for this. His works are as anti-literary as one can get.

Shippey explains all this a thousand times better than I ever could.

I've never seen a Tolkien critique (even a bad one) that consider his works 'pulpy'. It's clearly not.

There may be a bit of a contradiction in saying you believe a 'snob hill' does not exist, but also admit there are snobs everywhere.

 

[pmmg]

Are there still snobs? I dont know. Does the NY Times still put out a book list? I bet they wont like my story.

Literary conjures up old images of past battles in the book world to me. Was not meaning to push the thread in a discussion of them. But then a word like literary just carries that connotation.

Anyway, I'll answer again. I think the answer is yes, it is possible to be both literary and fantasy.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Not sure, but I dont think pulpy really existed in Tolkiens day, at least not in the way we understand it now. I would say the bazillions of authors who put out lower quality riffs on his work might have been some of the first "pulp."

 

[pmmg]

Conan, definitely pulp, was 1930's. Tolkien was 1950's so...pulp must have existed in his day.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Are there still snobs? I dont know. Does the NY Times still put out a book list? I bet they wont like my story.

Literary conjures up old images of past battles in the book world to me. Was not meaning to push the thread in a discussion of them. But then a word like literary just carries that connotation.

Anyway, I'll answer again. I think the answer is yes, it is possible to be both literary and fantasy.

Yeah, I think it would be fun to discuss what the makeup of a literary fantasy would look like.


A conversation about the "REAL political and gatekeepery motivations of lit critics" can go about a thousand different directions, all of them pretty old hat. Shake your fist at the man. Arr. Unfair I say.
Mmk, anyway.

 

[Finchbearer]

Who are the literary elite? The literary illuminati??

I don’t think there’s a literary elite who are gate keeping books they deem unworthy according to imaginary standards that aspiring authors may have, no.

I say ‘pulpy’ because we all know what that means, I am not sure what term or terms may have been used.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Conan, definitely pulp, was 1930's. Tolkien was 1950's so...pulp must have existed in his day.

Woah, I had no idea Conan was that old. Cool!

 

[Finchbearer]

I think it’s often a case of the disproportionate gap between what is considered literary greatness by people working within the writing industry and what the masses actually want to consume. The kind of people who will buy the latest romance or thriller are not the kind of people who will be looking at books of Pulitzer Prize nominees. It’s also about what kind of work you want to produce as an author I would have thought too. Are you looking for critical acclaim, or are you looking to simply sell an easy-to-read variation of an already well-known genre?