Prose Style Concern

[MSadiq]

I´m planning, God willing, insha'Allah, to write a fantasy series, but my major concern is my prose style; my first language isn't English. It's Arabic, but, I'd say, I'm quite competent, but my style doesn't conform to English's usual preferences. Still, I'm writing fiction, so there should be some wiggle room.

While I haven't written anything outside of a short story, which was, in a way, a "formalization" of a local folktale, I came up with some prose that doesn't take place in anywhere to test my style. Because I naturally write, well, like an Arab would, I leaned more into it, so it would not come out as an English-Arabic blob with misaligned features.

I'd appreciate your feedback very much. Is it too weird? Repetitive? Hard to follow? Does it have "redundancy"?


The man’s almost-corpse dropped with the heaviness of a boulder onto the torrid, scarlet, desert sand, back laced with arrows; from afar, his visage seemed of a giant urchin. Enemies, five hundred strong surrounding him, like a necklace on a girls neck. Still, they did not dare approach a hand span closer; his presence required trepidation and demanded reverence.

“Saddlebags swollen with silver and gold,” a man clamored, breaking the noiselessness, “for whoever sunders his head.”


He was motionless as a mountain, as if the world around him had turned black, a canvas inked to absolute pitchiness, punctuated with blobs of white malign. Eyes shooting him stares of daggers, parched—lusting to spurt from his flesh springs of delicious red.


“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, walking backwards as he faced Baqir with swagger in his gait, throwing his weight left and right in strut and making wide swings with his fists and drumming them on his chest.

 

[Finchbearer]

I’d say you’re working at a level higher than simply ‘competent’ - with caveats.

I would not read this in isolation and assume the writer is Arabic in origin, despite the context made clear in the passage.

You’ve obviously been purposeful to use archaic adjacent language, which works for fantasy / classic / historic in flavour.

There are some areas where the texture is dense. Stacking simile and metaphor is making it feel heavy at the moment for me. The girls necklace line is interesting but it feels out of place, because people have different ideas of what a necklace looks like, for example.

Leaning into the Arabic -ness in this case is working anyway, so that isn’t an issue.

If you tried to write a Northern European setting and started using desert metaphors then I would be questioning things. In this case. You’re consciously taking into account the setting.

 

[Karlin]

English is fine, but I must ask- why not an Arabic language fantasy?

 

[Mad Swede]

It's in your style, in the same way that I (as a Swede) write English prose in a style which derives from my native language. I shouldn't worry about it, just write and see where it takes you.

 

[pmmg]

I think the description is too much. I would streamline it down, and fix some of the small quirks of the language to improve the flow.

Qais dropped like a boulder onto the scarlet desert sand, his back laced with arrows. Enemies, five hundred strong, surrounded him, but still, they did not dare approach. His presence required trepidation and demanded reverence.

“Saddlebags swollen with silver and gold,” a man clamored, breaking the silence--Baqir. "Riches for whoever brings me his head.”

Qais remained motionless, as if the world around him had turned black, a canvas inked to absolute pitch, punctuated with blobs of white malign. Eyes shot him stares like daggers, parched—lusting to spurt from his flesh springs of delicious red.

“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, standing, and then walking backwards as he faced Baqir, a swagger in his gait, his weight thrown left and right in his strut, his fists drumming against his chest.

 

[MSadiq]

English is fine, but I must ask- why not an Arabic language fantasy?

For multiple reasons.

First, because it's simply harder, not because Arabic is some super-duper, ultra, mega, hard language, but because spoken Arabic and written Arabic are very different. If you have been to school and uni, you have no problem, but because it's not the spoken language, genres like fantasy and science-fiction sound really awkward. There are people who made it work, using a style closer to spoken Arabic, but that doesn't fit my setting. Imagine an Anglo-Saxon village that speak in some vaguely North American accent with all the slang, and we're supposed to believe that's how they spoke. This makes it not a very popular genre in Arabic.

The second reason is that language plays a big role in my power system. I have analogues of what's basically English and Classical Arabic, but trying to write English words, especially neologisms, using the Arabic script is, basically, impossible. Arabic orthography doesn't include short vowels, only long ones, so cat, would be ct, and Britain would be Brtn, while car, first, for, and so on would remain the same. It would be impossible to convey the pronunciation of an English neologism. On the other hand, Arabic has very few vowels, which I can perfectly represent with English orthography. A, aa, u, uu, i, ee, aw, and aj. Done.

Third, while my themes of belief, religion, and struggling with meaning are common, if not the most common, the way they'll be presented, insha'Allah, doesn't mesh well with an Arab audience, not because it's offensive, but it's, simply, not meant for a Muslim, which is what most Arab are, audience.

 

[MSadiq]

I think the description is too much. I would streamline it down, and fix some of the small quirks of the language to improve the flow.

Qais dropped like a boulder onto the scarlet desert sand, his back laced with arrows. Enemies, five hundred strong, surrounded him, but still, they did not dare approach. His presence required trepidation and demanded reverence.

“Saddlebags swollen with silver and gold,” a man clamored, breaking the silence--Baqir. "Riches for whoever brings me his head.”

Qais remained motionless, as if the world around him had turned black, a canvas inked to absolute pitch, punctuated with blobs of white malign. Eyes shot him stares like daggers, parched—lusting to spurt from his flesh springs of delicious red.

“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, standing, and then walking backwards as he faced Baqir, a swagger in his gait, his weight thrown left and right in his strut, his fists drumming against his chest.

Thanks for the feedback! I put double spaces between the paragraph to try and make it clear that the first two paragraph and that two under them aren't part of the same text, but it seems that didn't come across well

They're meant to be scenes that are already in action of wider context that doesn't exist.

I'll try to keep in mind your point about too much description.

 

[MSadiq]

I’d say you’re working at a level higher than simply ‘competent’ - with caveats.

I would not read this in isolation and assume the writer is Arabic in origin, despite the context made clear in the passage.

You’ve obviously been purposeful to use archaic adjacent language, which works for fantasy / classic / historic in flavour.

There are some areas where the texture is dense. Stacking simile and metaphor is making it feel heavy at the moment for me. The girls necklace line is interesting but it feels out of place, because people have different ideas of what a necklace looks like, for example.

Leaning into the Arabic -ness in this case is working anyway, so that isn’t an issue.

If you tried to write a Northern European setting and started using desert metaphors then I would be questioning things. In this case. You’re consciously taking into account the setting.

You really caught every single point I had concern about, lol.

You’ve obviously been purposeful to use archaic adjacent language, which works for fantasy / classic / historic in flavour.

I'm not purposefully using archaic adjuncts, as in going out of my way to use them, but that's the closet thing to how you'd say it in Arabic, and I forced myself to not change it to something more of Modern English. But as you said, I'm aiming medieval, so it works, as long as I'm not heavy-handed with it.

There are some areas where the texture is dense. Stacking simile and metaphor is making it feel heavy at the moment for me. The girls necklace line is interesting but it feels out of place, because people have different ideas of what a necklace looks like, for example.

This is the point that's I'm most iffy about, too, especially that you and pmmg have both pointed this out. This quite normal in Arabic because its morphology and syntax allows you to keep track of more information. I'll keep this in mind as much as I can. Maybe turning the metaphor into an action would make it better.

If you tried to write a Northern European setting and started using desert metaphors then I would be questioning things. In this case. You’re consciously taking into account the setting.

I'm keeping this in mind for my Northern-European-inspired cultures.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Finchbearer]

This quite normal in Arabic because its morphology and syntax allows you to keep track of more information.

I’m not bilingual, so if I read translated works I have to hope it’s a good quality translation that works best to capture the flavour of the original culture and language it was written in. It’s what I like best about translated works actually, so I don’t see why you can’t lean into heavy metaphor. It’s something I really like in your passage, and I think it’s more a matter of trimming millimetres rather than whole chunks.

 

[MSadiq]

I’m not bilingual, so if I read translated works I have to hope it’s a good quality translation that works best to capture the flavour of the original culture and language it was written in. It’s what I like best about translated works actually, so I don’t see why you can’t lean into heavy metaphor. It’s something I really like in your passage, and I think it’s more a matter of trimming millimetres rather than whole chunks.

I agree with you on translated work; nothing irks me more when English texts come out a slop. The Arabic translation of the Hobbit is absolutely egregious.
I'm working at writing short stories, which I translate into English. They're "formalizations" of folktales, just like how the Grimm brothers formalized many German folktales. I've already written one, so maybe I'll post some in the future.

 

[AlexS]

"The man’s almost-corpse dropped with the heaviness of a boulder"

Perhaps try "The half-dead man dropped, heavy as a boulder"? Neither "almost-corpse" nor "with the heaviness of..." sound natural.

"surrounding him, like a necklace on a girls neck. Still, they did not dare approach"

This metaphor is interesting, but conflicting. A necklase on a girl's neck would be very close, literally touching her skin. But then you say they dared not approach. So it's a conflicting message. Perhaps try a different metaphor, eg. "hyenas circling a wounded lion"?

"He was motionless as a mountain"

It's ambiguous who was motionless: the man with arrows in his back, or the man who just spoke.

“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, walking backwards as he faced Baqir with swagger in his gait, throwing his weight left and right in strut and making wide swings with his fists and drumming them on his chest.

It's not clear which one is Qais and which one is Baqir. Perhaps identify them earlier? (eg. instead of "man spoke", "Baqir spoke")

 

[Mad Swede]

"The man’s almost-corpse dropped with the heaviness of a boulder"

Perhaps try "The half-dead man dropped, heavy as a boulder"? Neither "almost-corpse" nor "with the heaviness of..." sound natural.

We'd write something similar in Swedish, so I don't have a problem with the original wording.

"surrounding him, like a necklace on a girls neck. Still, they did not dare approach"

This metaphor is interesting, but conflicting. A necklase on a girl's neck would be very close, literally touching her skin. But then you say they dared not approach. So it's a conflicting message. Perhaps try a different metaphor, eg. "hyenas circling a wounded lion"?

Now I'm going to be a bit critical. I've served in the Middle East, and I understand MSadiq's metaphor exactly. But to understand it you need to have seen non-western jewelry worn with non-western clothing otherwise you won't know how a necklace can seem to float above the skin of a woman. Don't come at this with a western perspective, let the prose take you away into the story.

"He was motionless as a mountain"

It's ambiguous who was motionless: the man with arrows in his back, or the man who just spoke.

“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, walking backwards as he faced Baqir with swagger in his gait, throwing his weight left and right in strut and making wide swings with his fists and drumming them on his chest.

It's not clear which one is Qais and which one is Baqir. Perhaps identify them earlier? (eg. instead of "man spoke", "Baqir spoke")

It's entirely clear, but you can't skim through it, you have to read it. I'd suggest reading Sir Richard Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights (Alf Laylah wa-Laylah) as that comes close to a similar prose style in English.

 

[Mad Swede]

I agree with you on translated work; nothing irks me more when English texts come out a slop. The Arabic translation of the Hobbit is absolutely egregious.
I'm working at writing short stories, which I translate into English. They're "formalizations" of folktales, just like how the Grimm brothers formalized many German folktales. I've already written one, so maybe I'll post some in the future.

There's nothing worse than a lazy translation which loses the meaning and sense of the original prose. That's why a good translation is more an interpretation of the original than an exact translation.

 

[AlexS]

We'd write something smiliar in Swedish, so I don't have a problem with the original wording.

Now I'm going to be a bit critical. I've served in the Middle East, and I understand MSadiq's metaphor exactly. But to understand it you need to have seen non-western jewelry worn with non-western clothing otherwise you won't know how a necklace can seem to float above the skin of a woman. Don't come at this with a western perspective, let the prose take you away into the story.

It's entirely clear, but you can't skim through it, you have to read it. I'd suggest reading Sir Richard Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights (Alf Laylah wa-Laylah) as that comes close to a similar prose style in English.

Thank you for your service. I lived in the middle east for 26 years

 

[Finchbearer]

Now I'm going to be a bit critical. I've served in the Middle East, and I understand MSadiq's metaphor exactly. But to understand it you need to have seen non-western jewelry worn with non-western clothing otherwise you won't know how a necklace can seem to float above the skin of a woman. Don't come at this with a western perspective, let the prose take you away into the story.

In my minds eye, I’m seeing the chain links of metal that line up next to each other in a uniform pattern, rather than your exacting mirage- like impression. It’s veering abstract, and it almost works, but not quite for me.

 

[MSadiq]

"The man’s almost-corpse dropped with the heaviness of a boulder"

Perhaps try "The half-dead man dropped, heavy as a boulder"? Neither "almost-corpse" nor "with the heaviness of..." sound natural.

"surrounding him, like a necklace on a girls neck. Still, they did not dare approach"

This metaphor is interesting, but conflicting. A necklase on a girl's neck would be very close, literally touching her skin. But then you say they dared not approach. So it's a conflicting message. Perhaps try a different metaphor, eg. "hyenas circling a wounded lion"?

"He was motionless as a mountain"

It's ambiguous who was motionless: the man with arrows in his back, or the man who just spoke.

“Pride, that’s what you lack,” Qais said, walking backwards as he faced Baqir with swagger in his gait, throwing his weight left and right in strut and making wide swings with his fists and drumming them on his chest.

It's not clear which one is Qais and which one is Baqir. Perhaps identify them earlier? (eg. instead of "man spoke", "Baqir spoke")

I should've made that more clear, but only the first two paragraphs are meant to be part of the same text. They're written as if they're taken from a context, but they really don't have any. I wanted to give the feeling that there's action before them, thought there's none.

 

[Mad Swede]

Thank you for your service. I lived in the middle east for 26 years

If you lived there that long I have to ask why you think MSadiq needs to change his prose style? Sure, you could write it all in a western style, but what is wrong with taking the reader away into the setting using a different prose style? Challenge them, engage them, draw them in. Yes, as a reader you have to do a bit of work, but why not?

 

[Mad Swede]

In my minds eye, I’m seeing the chain links of metal that line up next to each other in a uniform pattern, rather than your exacting mirage- like impression. It’s veering abstract, and it almost works, but not quite for me.

Ah, this is the beauty of jewelry combined with clothing from those parts of the world. It is stunning, and yes it does give the sense or impression of a mirage.

 

[MSadiq]

There's nothing worse than a lazy translation which loses the meaning and sense of the original prose. That's why a good translation is more an interpretation of the original than an exact translation.

Bingo. Languages aren't inventories of slightly different sounds with slightly different ways of saying the same thing. There are almost no words in any language that map into another. That's why, for example, when translate int English, I use phrase or synonyms. This part, "his presence required trepidation and demanded reverence," is just me trying to convey the word هيبة/haybah, which in English they translate as prestige, but that's completely wrong. The word kin doesn't have an Arabic counterpart, either, and so on.

A translation is the the translator's comprehension of a text from one language rendered in another language. This rendering tries to be as close to the original text as it can.

 

[pmmg]

I read it as, he was surrounded and they were close. But...I thought it was too much and unnecessary. It don't matter if the line gets cut. I guess you could say, I found the necklace to be gaudy and unappealing