How large is too large?

[TheokinsJ]

I've always wanted to write an epic fantasy series with each book several hundred pages long, I don't know why. Something about writing huge books appeals to me, like the size of the books written by Brandon Sanderson and George rr Martin. However, I am told that this is not a good thing for first time authors- that large books don't sell unless you have a reputation and you are an established author. At a point in my first novel, I'm about eighty thousand words in, barely half way and I am thinking that perhaps it's getting too large. I'm not writing big for the sake of writing big, I'm writing a large, complex story that requires a lot of pages to tell the tale. However I keep wondering, are larger books more likely to be rejected than, say, something about 100 000 words?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

160k IS a bit chunky for a first book, but you can trim the fat in edits so keep plugging away.

Fantasy gets a bit of a pass. The average size for fiction is 85 - 100k. Fantasy gets some wiggle room for world building and stage setting, so 120k or so is acceptable. Larger books are becoming more acceptable, so I wouldn't really start to worry unless you're looking down the barrel at 200k and have no extraneous material.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

If you mean they won't sell to a traditional publishing house, then yes. It's probably too large. However, if you're going to publish the work yourself then don't be overly concerned about size. Tell the story as you feel it needs told. If that means your story is three books of 180k words each, so be it.

One cautionary point. You'll still need to revise and edit to cut away the fluff and fat. Self-publishing can bring you a lot of creative freedom (it's your dime & not another's) but it's no excuse for laziness in any part of the process. You may find your 160k will turn into a trim 130k work.

 

[Weaver]

I edited a 'massive tome' that was 244 thousand words. (That's not a typo.) For a traditional publisher, it would be too long. The author of this novel, though, has gone the indie route. (The thing is frakkin' huge in paperback. I am grateful for the Kindle version. And the Kindle. )

IMO, readers of sci-fi and fantasy like 'more book for their buck.' Even though the average length for fiction in general is only around 80K (seems so small, even though I know that some of my favorite novels are close to that), fantasy does run longer. Credit that much, at least, to the Tolkien-wannabes of years past. Although not a Tolkien-wannabe, Tad Williams has always written Really Big Novels. And they're full of story, not fat and fluff, and they sell well and readers like them. OTOH, one writer whom I could name (but won't 'cause my clone finds some aspects of his work inspiring) has this tendancy to pack too much information in that bores far more readers than it entertains. Result: a Really Big Novel that could have been half that length and had just as much story.

Do not make your novel longer just to get a high word count. Use the number of words you need to tell the story you need to tell, and no more. Also no fewer.

 

[Penpilot]

I agree that it's harder for a first time author sell a larger book and for that door-stopper of a book to sell it probably has to be exceptional.

At the same time, I'd say stop worrying and just keep writing if that's the story you want to write. Just do it knowing it will be harder to sell. But here's the thing. Once you've written a larger book, it's probably going to feel a little bit easier to write a smaller one. That was the case with me.

My first novel, an epic fantasy, was roughly 275K, and after three drafts is now where near ready to send out. My second book is 100K, and was a lot easier to write and the editing felt simpler, and the end result was/is way better.

I'm probably never going to go back to that first book, because I've got so many other books I want to write. But if I ever need to pump out a book fast, I know I could rewrite that first book because all the world building is already done. It's just about telling the story better.

But any way, sometimes you just have to swing for the fences even when the odds are that you're going to strike out.

 

[Azza]

Similar to what's already been said: as long as your book isn't long because it's packed out with unnecessary description, or side-plots that don't lead anywhere or really contribute to the main plot, then I think you'd be ok. Tad Williams has been mentioned, I am currently reading his series: Memory, Sorrow and Thorn and am really enjoying it. The books are long, but all of the writing is necessary.

A big 'no no' in my opinion, is to have an extremely long series, and split it up into loads of smaller books. For example: David Farlands 'Runelords' series, has 9 books I think it is so far (none of which are very long), I read the first two and then thought "am I willing to spend a fortune to buy the following 7?" This, to me, seems like a cheeky way to earn more money and it put me off.

For me, it's better to have longer books than to have more smaller books.

 

[Devor]

Big books can be intimidating when you don't know the author or what you're getting into. Just keep that in mind.

 

[C Hollis]

I am of the camp that says the story is as long as the story is.

And, there's a problem with that train of thought when it comes to traditional publishing. My first title wasn't long, but it was the first of many. Many agents don't want to try to sell a first of from a debut author. And as far as the length goes, I have seen many agents state they won't even ask for the first chapter if the story is greater than x (x varies from 100k to 200k, from what I have read).

That being said, it's not impossible. If the story is well written, somewhere there is an agent who will want to sell your title to a publishing house. Don't try to write something just to get published (I tried that). You will get beyond frustrated and give up. Write your story so that it will sell itself no matter the length.

 

[Weaver]

IMany agents don't want to try to sell a first of from a debut author. And as far as the length goes, I have seen many agents state they won't even ask for the first chapter if the story is greater than x (x varies from 100k to 200k, from what I have read).

There are agents who will look at a manuscript that's up to 200K words?! Do tell...

Here's another thing: You can trim a bit from a story once it's written, should it turn out to be too long for a particular market. (see, I'm not repeating the story about 'Roger and the Too-Long Novella') What is much harder (but not impossible) is adding more story to a manuscript that's 'too short.' Also, it is sometimes difficult to know what parts are the necessary ones and what parts you can afford to trim until after the whole thing is there to see.

The short version (which is what a lot of people are saying): Write the story. Worry about word count afterward.

 

[C Hollis]

There are agents who will look at a manuscript that's up to 200K words?! Do tell...

But the writing has to be absolutely stellar; knock-down, drag-out, kick-you-in-the-teeth amazing. (A good example is Elizabeth Kostova's The Historian, which clocks in at just about 240,000 words.) - Colleen Lindsay

Yes, most agents will balk at a word count that high. I have also seen agents state they will NOT accept anything over 100k.
Agents aren't as close-minded as some of us like to believe though. I never said there was a plethora of agents who would accept a monstrous manuscript, my point is they are out there. It's not easy getting published, and you may increase the difficulty with a fat manuscript, but it is not impossible.

Brandon Sanderson's debut was over 200k.

So, yes. They are out there.

 

[ecdavis]

My first book was 124K in size, though I imagine if I was trying to get a publisher to buy it, I would shrink it down to probably 100K or less. It's funny; those of you who remember the fantasy novels of the 1970s and early 1980s remember that many of them were not thick books. There were certainly large novels, but the majority you would see in bookstores back in the early 1980s were not large by today's standards.
For example, I just finished rereading C.J. Cherryh's "The Dreamstone" published in the late 70s. With the Afterwords on Names at the end, it is 197 pages long. Terry Brook's "The Sword of Shannara" , published at about the same time is 726 pages long.

I remember seeing Brook's book in the bookstores and thinking 'Wow, that is a long book' back in the early 1980s. That being said, Brooks' Shannara series were best sellers.

But now it seems like larger books are the norm, so I'd say just finish your book, see what others think of it. Don't let Word Count control your work, let the story flow naturally, you probably know best if the story is told.