Clueless Antagonist

[Chessie]

Hi, all! Happy New Year. My question is this: is it possible to have a strong antagonist in the story that doesn't really know he's opposing the mc's story goal?

The antagonist for my next project is someone close to the protagonist that ends up making things difficult for her. He's working to prevent her from achieving the story goal but his "villain" mindset doesn't switch on until later in the tale, although he's working against her the entire time. Just wondering if this approach to a villain would work well or if its better to have him know he's opposing her the whole time. Thanks!

 

[cupiscent]

Recently I read the Short Fuse Guide to Plotting Your Novel (which I recommend for some really pithy thought-starters about the deep bones of your story) which has this great definition of the antagonist: "The antagonist is the person or thing whose relationship with the protagonist creates the conflict."

For a really tight and compelling plot, I think you probably want the conflict to be seated in that relationship - in the two of them together - more than in their actions. It's totally possible to craft a story the way you're suggesting - with actions at cross-purposes that develop into deeper antagonism - but consider whether you can bring their relationship into it as well. For instance, do they have an existing relationship (siblings, colleagues, former lovers split amicably, whatever) that can make the development of antagonism more compelling? You mention the antagonist is someone close to the protag, so I think you're in the right ballpark there!

 

[Philster401]

I actually really like that idea.

 

[Penpilot]

Sure it's possible. There are many ways you can play this too.

All that matters is the antagonist stands in the way of the protagonist, preventing them from achieving their goals. For example, you can have a love triangle where the antagonist isn't aware of who the protagonist is.

 

[evanator66]

Does the main character know he is working against her? If not, that could lead to very interesting plot twists.

 

[Chessie]

Not really, no. She wants one thing, he wants another, and he does everything possible in his power to stop her from getting what she wants but they are still in relationship together until the end.. It occurs to her that she really needs to get away from him at some point if she's to achieve this goal, but her relationship with him makes it hard for her to pull away. I just hope he's enough of an antagonistic force (among other things) so the story doesn't lull.

 

[Nimue]

Humm. So she knows that he's really against her, but she doesn't care enough about that to get away from him? Is she unaware of everything he's doing, or is the goal less important to her than the relationship? More details would be nice, as this isn't making sense on a surface level.

I wouldn't say that an unintentional villain is less interesting than a straightforward villain--more interesting, maybe. Ultimately, conflict is conflict...but all the characters taking part in it have to be acting on believable motives.

 

[Chessie]

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. Yes, she does care enough to get away from him and eventually does. My question leaned more towards asking if villains *need* to know that they're being...well...villainous, or if its enough for them to just oppose the story goal no matter their proximity/relationship to the main character.

 

[Terry Greer]

It could work - especially as a comedy - and even especially if the villain never really intends to be a villain.
Or the realationship is something like Brad Pit and Angelina Joli the film Mr and Mrs Smith. Or where neither side knows (but the reader does) that they're antagonistic to each other.

 

[BronzeOracle]

Its an interesting idea, I'm trying to remember where I've seen this in a story before. From memory in 'The World at the End of Time' by Frederik Pohl there is an enormous plasma lifeform that is destroying stars and impacting on the protagonist but it is completely oblivious that humans even exist - its not a proper antagonist (you could say its another protagonist) but its actions have big consequences for the human characters in the story.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I think the key here is to answer a simple question. Why is the antagonist opposing the MC's plans? I mean if he doesn't actually have anything against her or her plans then he must have some overiding plan of his own which he follows. And at some point it becomes obvious that their two agendas are completely incompatible so he switches from opposing her plans in general to having a specific agenda against them. Sorry if this sounds a little confused but your scenario is vague to me.

I'm thinking here of a movie I saw long ago about which I remember very little. But the protagonist was an FBI agent of some sort and the antagonist a crook. The antagonist was in a relationship (use a thief to catch a thief type thing) with the protagonist, and was happy with said relationship. And when he bucked the relationship it was usually a minor matter. Than at some point the protagonist came up with a new game plan that directly hurt the antagonist in the pocket as it threatened his stash of loot I think. At that point he suddenly had to go from working with the protagonist but occasionally foiling his plans for his own benefit, to an all out enemy. Meanwhile the agent had no idea that his new plans so directly impacted on his tame thief so had no expectation of betrayal.

Come to think of it every episode of White Collar follows this line sort of. Also you might take a look at Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy for inspiration. Everyone has their own agendas and for the most part no one realises their agenda's go against the agency. They all end up in one way or another protecting their own backs at the expence of the agency, and half the time never realising it.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[SM-Dreamer]

Humm. So she knows that he's really against her, but she doesn't care enough about that to get away from him? Is she unaware of everything he's doing, or is the goal less important to her than the relationship?\.

Not uncommon for a person in an abusive relationship to be aware that they need to leave, but not having the... push to do so. Ie, they "love" the person so much that they tolerate it. So the protagonist could realize the antagonist isn't good for them to be with, but the relationship (human desire and all that) being stronger than the goal up to a certain point, such as an event that drives the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.

And I think this can work. It's far more... intimate? than the usual antagonist that's directly and blatantly opposed. It hits at a more personal level when you realize that the person you've opened yourself up to is your personal villain, and while there might not be at first direct conflict, the growing tension can lead to a rift that would then set them directly at odds.

 

[Nimue]

I would totally agree with the abusive relationship interpretation, except that Chesterama hasn't indicated that this is a particularly close or dependent relationship, just that they have a relationship with each other. Is the relationship the thing that is keeping the protagonist from acknowledging that he's against her? Sorry if I'm reading this incorrectly, but that's how it seems from the way it has been framed.

A potential pitfall of this plot is that you don't want the reader to be mentally screaming at the character for being oblivious and keeping a villainous character around. There's a certain amount of sympathy that can be invoked, but if this stretches over the entire plot, and it's obvious that villain character is villainous, then it would get tiresome. If there was some deception going on and the reader was kept in the dark about exactly who's behind it all, that would be more believable.

 

[Chessie]

Hi, Dreamer hit the nail on the head. I haven't been clear because I'm still developing some things, but what I *do* know is that the protagonist and antagonist are best friends who end up engaged (forced) and she's in love with someone else that she meets after the story starts. Throughout the progression of that love affair, her relationship with the antagonist remains sticky unhealthy and it gets worse (addiction, blurred boundaries, leading him on because she doesn't know how to get out of this mess, etc).

What's at stake for her: the loss of her friend and family (she's part of a band of brigands), a promotion she's about to receive for marrying the antagonist who is also the clan leader's son, and of course the man she's in love with because he doesn't know she's a bandit.

I want to write a story about how we often end up in relationships that are really unhealthy for us and how we basically have to pry ourselves away through a lot of internal strength, which is hard for an addict to muster. A whirlwind of bad crap all wrapped up in a lovely fantasy story.

The antagonist *does* eventually catch up to what she's doing and by then, he's already trying to figure out how to get rid of the other man and make her pay for her betrayal. But that doesn't happen until midpoint.

 

[Nimue]

In that case, I mean, you don't even need to ask. An abusive partner is a believable and terrifying villain--particularly terrifying because it could happen in real life, to anyone, given the wrong circumstances and enough coercion. And it sounds like your protagonist has a lot keeping her in that unhealthy place.

I've written a similar coercive, high-stakes relationship into my own WIP, between a witch and her noble husband; witchcraft is illegal but he's married her in order to use her for her power and rebel against the crown. She did love him at one point, and without him she would likely be dead. She doesn't manage, or even try, to get away from him until he's killed... That happens at the very beginning of the story, so their relationship is more background than plot element, but it does inform her beliefs, fears, and choices throughout the story. Background radiation, essentially.