First or third person?

[JLiana]

I'm about 4 chapters into my novel, and I'm questioning the POV I'm writing in. So far I've written from the first person perspective of my MC Mielli, because the story is ultimately about her journey to recover from trauma (so it seemed natural).

Recently I decided that I'm going to give her a companion on the road, a man who's also recovering from the same kind of trauma, in his own way. They'll be each others mirrors, not saviours or solutions, etc. He's being planned just as carefully as my MC.

It's making me debate if I should shift the story into third person. I don't want to steamroll over Mielli's story (especially with a mans story, because that happens enough in media), but I want to have the male characters experience be something that is taken seriously alongside hers.

First person gives me interiority, but less characterisation for the secondary protagonist. Third gives me more room to play and write about both characters, but I'm worried I'd lose a lot of the texture I've built in my writing.

I'd love some opinions, because there's every chance I am overthinking this.

 

[Adam Scribentis]

If you write in the voice of a third person narrator, do you want to shift from one character's perspective to another, and if so, do you want to do this back and forth within the same narrative sequence, or would you open a new chapter when changing perspective?

If it helps you to know what I do: I tend to write in the third person unless a character is telling someone his/her own story within the narrative. I also tend to stick with one point of view at a time, starting a new subchapter when changing angle character. Two characters' thoughts will not as a rule be treated within the same chapter or subchapter unless they are so close as to form a common perspective.

 

[pmmg]

From what I can tell, I am feeling the 1st person trend is shifting, and people are getting worn on it.

Otherwise, I am not sure I have a useful opinion. I write characters with trauma as well, and its in third person. I am not sure it makes much difference to the immersion or the impact.

 

[skip.knox]

Any reason you cannot switch between the two? First person for both? The practice is not uncommon.

 

[Malik]

Which First Person and which Third Person are you considering? There are several of each.

In First Person, there's subjective narration, interior monologue, Interior monologue with stream of consciousness, memoir. detached, and the unreliable narrator.

In Third Person: Limited third objective AKA “close third," limited third subjective, omniscient third objective, omniscient third subjective, frame narrative, and cinematic.

Each of these determines what information your readers receive, and therefore they determine the point of your story--your theme and subtext--as well as creating tension, mystery, etc.

A lot of the time, when your story peters out and "dies on the vine," it's because you chose the wrong narrative voice to tell the story you want to tell.

 

[Karlin]

A lot of the time, when your story peters out and "dies on the vine," it's because you chose the wrong narrative voice to tell the story you want to tell.

I see that this is a standard thing taught in writing coiurses and so on, but it makes little sense to me.
Note that I am a pantser, and write intuitively, so I am blind to most of these nuances.

 

[JLiana]

From what I can tell, I am feeling the 1st person trend is shifting, and people are getting worn on it.

Yeah, I won't lie when I say it's part of the reason I'm reconsidering it.

 

[JLiana]

Any reason you cannot switch between the two? First person for both? The practice is not uncommon.

I've never actually read a book written like that, to be honest!

 

[Gurkhal]

Since I personally dislike 1st person and like 3rd person I'm going to recommend that. But I don't have heavier arguments than personal preferences.

 

[pmmg]

I think Moby Dick is the only book that did do that, but...

I have heard, name of the wind is this way. Its pretty popular now, but its not on my read list.

 

[JLiana]

Which First Person and which Third Person are you considering? There are several of each.

So far I've written in first person subjective with a little interior monologuing. I think I'd write it in third omniscient to retain some interiority.

I think my main concern is getting across character emotion within the framework of the story, and maybe third omniscient would be better for telling the story of two survivors, rather than telling it from one POV.

 

[Penpilot]

I've read books with two main characters told using 1st. You just have to make it clear at the beginning of each section which character the 1st POV is from.

I've also read books where they mix 1st and 3rd. They'll use 1st for their primary POV and then use 3rd for their secondary characters when things are being told from their POV.

 

[Malik]

I see that this is a standard thing taught in writing coiurses and so on, but it makes little sense to me.
Note that I am a pantser, and write intuitively, so I am blind to most of these nuances.

NGL, as a pantser you're likely gonna have a real bitch of a time choosing the correct POV to deliver your theme and subtext if you don't know what they are at the outset. I know pantsers who can do it; Fonda Lee is probably the best living SF/F author I know when it comes to this. But that kind of talent may reside in one in a hundred thousand authors.

I don't know how to break it down any simpler: the POV you choose delivers information to the reader. For instance, if you choose Omniscient Subjective (Princess Bride, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and all of my novels), the narrator is a separate character who knows the entire story and is relaying it to the reader--imagine someone with a drink in their hand telling a story at a party and doing all the impressions spot-on--so that they can make the point with the story by including or omitting information. If you choose, say, stream of consciousness in First Person, the reader is only going to know what the POV character knows at any given time.

Now, the biggest reason for this is that what separates a novel from a very long story is the subtext and climax.

Subtext, for those of you who haven't studied writing, is the deeper, secondary story that your book tells. The "What's the Point?" of the whole thing.

Novels were originally considered scandalous in the 18th and 19th Centuries because they were different from "Romances" (not bodice-rippers, but long heroic tales) in that the stories had a secondary meaning buried in the tale.

To make a novel really punch, your climax--the largest rise in action--needs to also be the point where your text and your subtext cross paths. If you don't do that, you don't (technically) have a novel. You have a very long story. This affects you as a pantser because if you don't know what your subtext is--hell, if you don't know where your story's going--it's very, very difficult to make your theme and subtext sync up at the climax. Some people can do it; some people are born with a gene for it. Me, I'm not. Roll back through my posts here and look for a link to what my outlines look like.

I'm not saying you have to do it my way. There's no "correct" way to create. I'm saying every method has its drawbacks. Me, I write my jacket copy and synopsis first. My first draft comes in around 40K pages, with some scenes and even chapters just a line in present tense, sometimes all in caps: THIS GUY DOES THIS THING, or THIS IS WHERE (X) HAPPENS. For some descriptions, I just drop a picture inline.

The first draft is just me telling myself the story and making sure it makes sense. If the story drifts during the first draft, I'll go back to the jacket copy and synopsis, decide what works better, and then build the outline. Once I have the outline, I put the first draft up on one monitor, and retype the whole damned thing on another, smoothing as I go. I rewrite each novel 5 or 6 times before it even goes to developmental editing. Then I fix it again. Then it goes to line editing, and I fix that. Then it goes to copyediting, and then several rounds of proofreading. It takes me 2 or 3 years to finish a book, and by the end I may have put a million words into it. I know I did for my most recent release.

My workflow is idiotic. Don't do it. But you have to find what works for you. If pantsing is your thing, be prepared to do dozens of rewrites until you find the right narrative structure. It doesn't make it wrong; it's just a trip hazard that's idiosyncratic to your creative style.

 

[Karlin]

NGL, as a pantser you're likely gonna have a real bitch of a time choosing the correct POV to deliver your theme and subtext if you don't know what they are at the outset....

I don't conciously think about any of this, so I don't have a "bitch of a time". I didn't take writing courses, or read stacks of "how to" books. I don't even know what half the terms you use are.

It's a very intuitive process. Since you are not a pantser, it may strike you as insanely difficult, or doomed to failure since I don't know the difference between the different subtypes of thrid person, or I don't plan out my subtext or whatever. I don't do dozens of rewrites. It just doesn't work that way for me.

 

[Prince of Spires]

If it's just an idea you're having that it could be cool to have teh guy's POV included, then ignore that idea and just keep writing. In my experience when you're writing, there are always ideas that seem like they're better than the current one you're having. It's simply because writing is hard work and ideas are easy.

If you're actually stuck in the story you're telling because you need the guy's perspective in there, then consider changing it.

However, having limitations can force you to write better. There's no reason you can't tell the guy's journey from the first person POV of the girl. After all, we as humans do it internally all the time when we look at other people around us. Is it harder? Sure, but if it was easy everyone would do it. It can also make a stronger book.

I'd say, unless you're really, absolutely, completely stuck, keep writing your story as you are now and finish your draft in first person POV. Then give it to someone to read or read it back yourself, and see if it works or not.

 

[JLiana]

If it's just an idea you're having that it could be cool to have teh guy's POV included, then ignore that idea and just keep writing. In my experience when you're writing, there are always ideas that seem like they're better than the current one you're having. It's simply because writing is hard work and ideas are easy.

If you're actually stuck in the story you're telling because you need the guy's perspective in there, then consider changing it.

My thinking is that my MC definitely needs someone to push against her in a way that challenges her worldviews, attitudes, etc. She has a reason to leave her situation, something to move towards, and there's moments I have planned out - I just think it might be a little boring if it's just her in her own head all the time as she goes on her physical/mental journey.

I am, however, a total novice, and appreciate the insight. I'll keep going for now!

 

[Mad Swede]

OK JLiana, now that Malik has gone into the POV details better than I can I'm going to give you a suggestion. Rewrite your story in Third Person Limited. This is very close to the First Person POV you've already started using, but lets you follow several different characters and gives you the "interiority" you seem to want for all those characters. This link to Nathan Bransford's blog may help you:

Nathan Bransford: Third person omniscient vs. limited vs. head jumping

 

[JLiana]

OK JLiana, now that Malik has gone into the POV details better than I can I'm going to give you a suggestion. Rewrite your story in Third Person Limited. This is very close to the First Person POV you've already started using, but lets you follow several different characters and gives you the "interiority" you seem to want for all those characters. This link to Nathan Bransford's blog may help you:

Nathan Bransford: Third person omniscient vs. limited vs. head jumping

Thank you, I'll give this a read!