• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

scenes with consequences

A weakness I'm starting to see in my writing:

I know where the story is going, but again and again I find I finish a chapter and realize that characters have fought or argued or investigated but nothing has happened that tangibly changes the balance of things. Ideally I think more scenes should make some specific change: a distinct new lead found or followed (or lost), an important tool discovered or destroyed, an alliance made or ruined, a character hurt/captured or healed/freed, and so on.

In comparison, a set of scenes without those changes seems to be either coasting (if mediocre) or building more of the same momentum (if done well). Of course we all know plenty of sequences that work without them, but I'm trying to be sure that more of mine don't just forget to work these in.

Anyone else have concerns like this, or any thoughts on how to cover them?
 
Last edited:
I'm guessing you have a problem planning a propper narrative structure. It sounds like you are understating the importance of scenes in relation to the main plot and understating the importance of the chapters themselves. You say you'll "finish" a chapter without anything of much importance happening. I think that's your main issue right there.

Ideally, something should happen in every chapter that brings the plot forward, in the form of a genuinely plot-vital event that pushes the characters and their circumstances into the next important event in the following chapter. These are basically the things you mention: Important things happening to the characters, plot devices lost or gained, the main character accomplishing or discovering something specific, etc.

As a rule of thumb, you want at least one of these per chapter. Indeed, having achieved that one thing and set up the next it's usually how you know when to end the chapter. You're not actually finished until you reach that point.

I'm assuming you define a "scene" the same way I do, that is to say any one time the characters are shown doing something in a certain place for a certain reason. (Fighting, arguing, etc.) Those parts are basically the circumstances that all lead up to that one important event in that chapter.

In other words, every individual scene doesn't have to be directly important to the plot at large (I'm not even sure that's possible) but each scene should play a part in bringing about the vital event of that specific chapter. Or, put more simply: Scenes cause the chapters to happen, and the chapters cause the plot to happen.
 

Sinitar

Minstrel
It may be me and my tired mind, but I did not understand much from your first post. Scenes make up a chapter. They can either have their own meaning or shine when pieced together. From what you said, I guess you have difficulties with finding the right scenes for your chapters.

I'll take a leap of faith and say that your problem is not the scenes themselves, but the lack of conflict, drama, stakes or repercussions. Each chapter should move the story forward or contribute to the character development in some meaningful way. Are your chapters governed by this rule?

I honestly can't say much without knowing more details. If there's an external conflict, it can tip the balance quite easily, and you won't have to worry about your story's lack of steam.
 

mpkirby

Scribe
Try this.

Take a novella or longer work from an author that you like. Then go through and outline it just like you might if you were going to write the work from scratch. Outline the plot flow, characterizations, key scenes, etc.

Then take your work and do the same. Compare the two.

What are you missing that the good work has. Work through your outline until it has the attributes of the better work. (don't just copy scene for scene, that's not what I'm getting at).

Then you end up with a descent guide to making you fiction move forward. Proceed to write (or re-write) to achieve the outline.

It's a bit formulaic, but the idea behind the exercise is to understand the elements of a good story that your "bad" story is missing.

I'd try to avoid some huge work (that's why I suggested novella..Shorter might not have enough plot development)

Mike
 

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Sure, not every scene of my novels has a direct impact on the main plot lines. Sometimes, I just like to explore a character a little more, or let a reader in on a joke, or something. Pacing is a huge reason that I might choose to do that. It's sort of a balancing act for me. One chapter with heavy conflict, then a scene to regroup, a breather for the characters and reader, before I move on, to something more intense again.

If we're literally talking about chapters, where nothing is happening... I think the problem is in the planning. I'm a pantser, and pretty proud of it. But, there are times, when an outline is the only way to go. When you start to see your story heading into any area you need to reel it back from, an outline is your best friend.

First, have a brainstorm session with a notebook. A little alcohol and a good friend never hurt during this stage, either. Brainstorm, and write down everything. Any possible conflict, character development, or random thought that pops into your head.

Once you have a big brainstorm down, you can start to group those things into categories. Maybe number them, or circle one group and highlight another. The goal is to say, "When my main character is in prison, I have two paths to take. If he escapes, this set of things can happen, but if his brother breaks him out, these things should happen."

See where this is going? Then, that list of things, is your cheat sheet for writing the next few chapters. If you have chapters where nothing is moving the plot, there are certainly some really easy ways to edit some changes in.

A question I ask people when i don't get the point of a scene, is, "What are your goals with this scene?" I ask myself as well, and sometimes find that a scene went too far past its goals, and it needs to be trimmed and edited to be pertinent.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
First, I suggest googleing up scenes and sequels as they relate to story structure.

Second, to me 'scenes' can do one of three things, move the plot, develop character, and expand the world. If the scene doesn't do at least two of those then it's a weak scene. Ideally a scene will do all three, but it isn't necessary.
 

Helen

Inkling
A weakness I'm starting to see in my writing:

I know where the story is going, but again and again I find I finish a chapter and realize that characters have fought or argued or investigated but nothing has happened that tangibly changes the balance of things. Ideally I think more scenes should make some specific change: a distinct new lead found or followed (or lost), an important tool discovered or destroyed, an alliance made or ruined, a character hurt/captured or healed/freed, and so on.

In comparison, a set of scenes without those changes seems to be either coasting (if mediocre) or building more of the same momentum (if done well). Of course we all know plenty of sequences that work without them, but I'm trying to be sure that more of mine don't just forget to work these in.

Anyone else have concerns like this, or any thoughts on how to cover them?

I completely agree with you.

Each scene should move it forward someway somehow.

I don't have any tricks for it, just to keep that in mind when outlining it.
 

Sinitar

Minstrel
Not necessarily Helen. Scenes that offer insight into a character's background are important too, and they don't move the story forward. It's all about balance, in my opinion.

Besides, a chapter can have three or more scenes. If one of them pushes the plot forward, it's enough.
 
It sounds like you might have some weeding to do here. Some people get so caught up in sub-plots that they tend to forget the main plot while others think their plot will carry a story and it sometimes isn't strong enough.

I agree with the others to reflect on the outline, but you may want to see what you can do to turn up the tension and cut out some scenes. If the story makes sense without a scene there, then maybe it wasn't good to have it there. If it doesn't make sense, then you know it is vital to the story.

Get your ending down, and use this as your goal. The end doesn't have to be set in concrete, but it does help you stay on target.
 
Top