Blade Shape: Reverse-Curve and Wavy

[Wanara009]

Reverse-Curve

Wavy

What purpose do they serve? They seems rather counter-intuitive. Wavy blades can't be used to slash properly, only stab (sure, I found some source that say it can make you stab deeper, but that only justify the existence of wavy-spearhead), and reverse-curve seems to be a good way to get your knife stuck.

I heard wavy blade also make the wounds harder to put back, but I can't verify it

 

[Mindfire]

I don't know about the reverse-curve, but I have heard elsewhere that stabbing or slashing with a wavy blade means that the wound edges won't line up neatly, which makes the wound much harder for a medic to close. It's less like a sword and more like a battle-saw.

 

[J. S. Elliot]

Well, I'm not sure what type of sword the second one is, but that seems too wavy to do anything with. A gently waved sword like the flamberge would be more effective, both as a standard weapon and for the purpose of mangling wounds. The picture below would be a close example to what one of my own characters wields:

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

The one in the op does look somewhat more decorative but undulating swords did have some purpose. In the dagger the wounding ability would be useful, but in a sword fight they aid in parrying. The theory was that an enemy sword smashing into the undulations would either bounce off unpredictably disturbing an opponent's rhythm, or transfer a jarring shock through his sword to him which would do the same.

As for curves in swords, that's about slicing. This you can check for yourself. Take a straight edged carving knife, carving knife, place it on a tomato, and simply push down. The result, depending on the tomato and the sharpness maybe a little messy, and it takes quite a lot of pressure to push down. Now hold the handle and as you push down, slice it, i.e. pull the blade towards you. Now the cut is easier, the wound deeper and cleaner for the same amount of effort. So clearly you want to use a slicing action as you swing. The problem is that unless you correctly angle the blade, which may not be the best thing to do in a fight when an enemy is trying to take your head off and your blade is your defence as well as your weapon, it won't often happen. A curved blade does this for you to an extent, and is why scimitars were quite popular. Its also one of the things that makes a katana so deadly.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Wavy blades can't be used to slash properly, only stab

Um... What are you basing this conclusion on? Are you experienced with this type of weapon, or are you refering to some kind of conclusive research? I would be interested to know.

They say that to be rational is to be more easily confused by fiction than by reality. So, if we see a weapon that looks really strange to us, but which was historically used relatively widely, it doesn't really make sense to assume history is wrong. Rather, the weapon probably has desirable qualities we don't know about.

There is some debate on what practical purpose flame-bladed swords served, and most likely the design mainly serves a decorative purpose - they are more difficult to make and more difficult to sharpen and maintain, thus a rich swordsman might desire one for bragging rights. But there are also a lot of speculation about the practicality of this style. Some say it helps parries, or that it allows for better draw-cuts much the same way as a serrated knife, or even that the waves in some cases focus the impact of the blade on a smaller area. One interesting idea is that the shape makes it harder for the opponent to grab on to the blade - most Eurpean flamberges are rapiers and zweihanders, two very different swords that are both succeptible to being grabbed and somewhat clumsy in a tight spot.

So, bottom line is, it may have served a practical purpose or it may just have been for show. Nobody quite seems to know for sure.

That said, I've never heard that they would be worse than regular swords, and I doubt they are or I don't think they would have been nearly as common as they are. As I said, they were probably a lot more exclusive than ordinary swords and it doesn't seem sensible to pay extra for a deficient weapon.

Notably, the blade you pictured is a kris, which has a certain religious significance in Indonesia, being both a weapon and a type of spiritual talisman. I'm not sure if the shape itself has any importance, though.

As for recurve blades, I presume they function on the same basis as sickles as scythes, causing cutting action on the inside of a curve rather than the outside as with sabers. They are somewhat uncommon and usually short, so they are most likely based around a particular fighting style. The knife in your picture is a kerambit, and while fighting knives aren't my thing, I know I guy who probably knows how to use one so I might get back to you on that.

By far the most common recurved bladed weapon is probably the Turkish yatagan, which is unfortunately a type of sword I know very little about. However, considering how popular they were in the Ottoman empire, I cannot believe they were much inferior to other types of blade.

I don't know about the reverse-curve, but I have heard elsewhere that stabbing or slashing with a wavy blade means that the wound edges won't line up neatly, which makes the wound much harder for a medic to close.

While it's not impossible there's some truth to this, I personally don't find it very likely this would be the actual reason. If you are fighting a man on the battlefield, your priority is probably going to be cutting him down then and there. Why should you even care if he dies of an infection weeks from now? That doesn't help you survive today.

It just seems strangely mean-spirited and to go to such lenghts as to design a very specific and complex sword just to ruin some unknown medic's day down the line.

It's less like a sword and more like a battle-saw.

Fun fact: Some naval cutlasses of the 16th and 17th century did actually have saw-toothed edges. Not just wavy edges, they were literally saws with sword-hilts.

Apparently these were experimental attempt to create a dual purpose tool: When not in combat, the sword could be used as a saw. They are rare, though, so it probably wasn't very successful.

 

[Mindfire]

While it's not impossible there's some truth to this, I personally don't find it very likely this would be the actual reason. If you are fighting a man on the battlefield, your priority is probably going to be cutting him down then and there. Why should you even care if he dies of an infection weeks from now? That doesn't help you survive today.

It just seems strangely mean-spirited and to go to such lenghts as to design a very specific and complex sword just to ruin some unknown medic's day down the line.

I see your point. When I wrote that part, I was actually thinking about wavy-bladed daggers rather than swords. The ability to inflict a wound not easily healed would be useful to an assassin would it not?

 

[Wanara009]

@ Anders
Well, my grand mother has two Keris. One a straight blade, the others wavy like the picture I given you. According to my grandmother, the wavy blade is mostly ceremonials and it has a dull side but sharp end. The Straight-blade made sense, since it look something like this. So yeah, I'm just curious about it.

Thanks for the info everyone

 

[Fakefaux]

While they're not quote "reverse curve" in the sense you seem to be thinking of, weapons like the kopis, falcata, and kukri have been popular throughout history. The heavier weight at the tip makes them very good at chopping, a sort of hybrid of sword and hatchet.

 

[The Tourist]

I sell knives and polish the edges on high end knives.

The first is a karambit. It has a Javanese background, the shape of the blade is to symbolize the curve of a tiger's fang.

May I ask what the chracter uses this for, or is it just a unique prop? There might be better knives more suitable to your plot.

Edit: The second knife is indeed a kris, I believe it's Malayan. If I'm allowed to post pictures yet, below is my personal EDC. That "double curve" is actually a recurve:

 

[Wanara009]

May I ask what the chracter uses this for, or is it just a unique prop? There might be better knives more suitable to your plot.

Yes, my character do use it as a main weapons in conjunction with the Keris. What make me decide on it is the small size and the fact its historically a hidden weapon (associated with woman as they can use it to tie their hair bun).

I did some more digging on it. There's also a version called Kerambit Sumbawa and Kerambit Lombok from Sumbawa and Lombok island respectively, which are made specifically in battle. It looks like this and this respectively. I'm thinking of giving my character this version instead of the Kuku Harimau that look like this

Also, the Kerambit curve seem to represent the curve on a rooster's feather tail, a tiger's claw, the long claw-like nails on many legendary figure like Bimasena and Hanoman.

 

[The Tourist]

Congrats on the research. I'm the polisher, not the merc. LOL. I know there's a martial art specializing in using tools like this, but I don't know what it's called or how to hunt it down.