Building a secondary reality world

[simpsonkeith9]

Hello, I am building virtual a secondary reality world with the knowledge that space travel is still no possible but Earth has been able to communicate with life across the galaxy through fast radio bursts. Instead of focusing on finding ways to travel to distant planets they build the secondary reality as they have the ability to do mind and body uploading into a virtual world where they can all interact with the alien races and eliminate things like poverty and disease as well as upload knowledge and resources from their home planet. Due to these advantages users now spent the majority of their lives in this secondary reality

The issue I am having is how to build the virtual world besides just having each race create a unique planet that incorporates their uniqueness.

Also, the novel takes place many years after the creation of the secondary reality where a war starts from a poor decision by the creators and admins of this virtual world where the evil group uses influence in the virtual world to not only do their bidding in the virtual world but in the real world to conquer both worlds. Any help is appreciated

 

[Prince of Spires]

I think the important thing to consider is how you want your secondary world to feel to the reader. Should it be a computer game? If so, what kind of game? Or maybe there are different parts which have different games. If it's not a computer game, then should it feel like earth or a hybrid between earth and the alien planet? If it feels like earth, then which part of earth and when? It could even be both, like the Matrix movies.

Once you've figured that out, then what rules are there? Common trope is that if you die in the computer world you also die in the real world. But you could also just respawn. If it's a computer world, then what are the limits? Can a programmer just write anything into the code? Or are there laws like physics at play? Can you spawn just about anything like random weapons? Or is there a limit to what you can create?

Those are the questions I would look to answer first. Of course, it starts with who is your main character, what do they want, etc? What is your conflict and your plot?

As a side note, but the physicist in me is triggered by the fast radio bursts. Contrary to what the name implies they are not fast in the sense that they travel at high speed. Like all other light waves, they travel at the speed of light (300.000 km/s, give or take), and that speed is always the same in a vacuum everywhere. There's no getting around it, it's one of the constants in nature. The fast in fast radio bursts means that they they last a very short time, anything from ms to 3 seconds.

What this means is that communicating with an alien race with them takes a long, long time. Nearest star is 4.2 lightyears away, which means that a radio signal we send that way takes 4.2 years to get there. And then the same if they want to send something back.

Now, this doesn't mean that your setting can't work, just that you need to explain why and how you travel faster than light. Call it subspace radio bursts or whatever.

 

[pmmg]

Also, the novel takes place many years after the creation of the secondary reality where a war starts from a poor decision by the creators and admins of this virtual world where the evil group uses influence in the virtual world to not only do their bidding in the virtual world but in the real world to conquer both worlds. Any help is appreciated

So its like Tik-Tok?


Its hard to imagine there is a way to build a virtual world for things to have accounts and move around in that does not already exist on the web already. Even alien creatures can only come in so many forms. And in a virtual world, why be limited? Why I cant I be like Superman virtually and fly everywhere...

Would the Aliens not enjoy wandering around in Runescape?

Anyway...I think we'd need to know something about the aliens. If I take Klingons for example, might they not find a computer simulation unsuitable to their conquest mentality? Or might they just always play to start wars and win? What might a Kilngon want from a virtual world would be one of my early questions.

It might be interesting if the virtual world had 'skins', such that I could be in it and everything looks early 1920's and for another it all looks like the set of Tron, and both of us are in it together. Suppose the aliens know they are not attractive by our standards, and use avatars that are all supermodels to win more favor...how might that affect their relations, and how might it affect the appraisal of supermodels?

I guess I might ask, if you could exist in a virtual world, what would you want it to look like? Cause mine would not have much to do with aliens.

 

[simpsonkeith9]

sorry i think i worded the post wrong but it was also2 am when I wrote it haha.... I guess what I should've said is that 200 years in the future technology has reached the level where mind and body uploading are possible......instead of people living in the real world (reality) where there is still disease, famine, poor, war etc they can upload their entire body/mind/consciousness etc into the secondary reality where they now live their lives. They choose to live in the secondary reality because of the advantages it has over the real world - no war, poverty, disease etc, as well as extended lifespan as they don't age in this world and lastly they can share knowledge and resources with alien races in this reality only as there is no way to achieve this in the "real world" ...

so Klingons wouldn't be able to achieve the dominations as war/physical violence is not possible and resources are endless

since the living beings are uploading their body into the secondary reality their appearance would mimic it in the secondary reality so trying to use avatars to fool others wouldn't be possible, but they could still do makeup, masks, clothing etc.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion, I am still trying to write put together a clear vision and writeup of the background

 

[pmmg]

Well...now I am asking questions....

But it would still be useful to know something about the aliens and what their world is like prior to the virtual world. If they are all fish people, and they have to keep the same body, they are gonna need a lot of water...or would they?

 

[Queshire]

Hm, there's a lot of fun stuff you can do here. I can imagine someone returning home after a day at work, but instead of opening to some crummy apartment their door opens up to an entire continent that belongs to them.

 

[simpsonkeith9]

why would they want to return home when the secondary reality is better than the real world...there is no issues in the secondary reality but if they went back to the "real world" they could be faced with the issues we deal with today

as for the fish people the secondary reality takes care of all the issues as it is not the real world and they have suits that accumulate them to any thing they have to deal with.... so if ur from earth it has the tech to make them so they can live in a freezing world or hot world

 

[Queshire]

I meant their home within the cyber world.

 

[Finchbearer]

I think you have a fun concept that you can do so many things with. You could certainly work with a lot of existentialist themes here - if you make it so that people would rather spend their time in a virtual reality rather than the real world. In my opinion you would do better to make the real world really crumby, maybe post apocalyptic to give some contrast.

I mean it’s no different to real life. Real life is hard for many, and so lots of people would rather live in a virtual reality.

 

[pmmg]

why would they want to return home when the secondary reality is better than the real world...there is no issues in the secondary reality but if they went back to the "real world" they could be faced with the issues we deal with today

as for the fish people the secondary reality takes care of all the issues as it is not the real world and they have suits that accumulate them to any thing they have to deal with.... so if ur from earth it has the tech to make them so they can live in a freezing world or hot world

I am not sure who mentioned them returning home... But, I dont feel you've answered the question about who the aliens are. Without knowing that, how would I know how to shape their end of the VR?


Anyway...I am asking questions, which I think you want to just say, it works cause I say they have it worked out, which I will accept, but I feel might be questions others ask as well. Such as PoS questions. Signals through space still take many many years to reach far away targets. If they are uploading their body, what becomes of their body? Is it like a Star Trek Transporter, the atoms just go somewhere else, cause to transmit a body over so far a distance and reconstruct would take a machine in the middle.... And that machine would have to be constructed...

I am not sure how to really help with this.

The issue I am having is how to build the virtual world besides just having each race create a unique planet that incorporates their uniqueness.

When I am asking about their uniqueness, you are not adding clarity. You are just saying they have it taken care of (fish suits and such.)

So, I am asking again. What are the aliens like?

 

[Prince of Spires]

so Klingons wouldn't be able to achieve the dominations as war/physical violence is not possible and resources are endless

This makes me curious: where is the conflict? The story you described hints that you're looking at a war of some kind. But this sort of removes all tension from the virtual world. Unless you're going for some political thriller of course, but that wasn't the vibe I got from your description.

With endless resources, there is nothing to fight over. And with physical violence impossible, there's no fighting to begin with. It feels very hard to create conflict in such a setting. And conflict is at the heart of the story.

They choose to live in the secondary reality because of the advantages it has over the real world - no war, poverty, disease etc,

I'm also curious about this. With such advanced technology, why is there still poverty, disease and war in the real world? If people can live indefinitely in the virtual world without needing any input from the real world, then the poor people would simply leave. The more resources you have the less stuff you have to actually fight over.

Also, separate question. But why do the aliens actually bother with our virtual world? Other than a random visit, why would they interact with us instead of just creating their own world? If they are fish people, why would they have any interest in us other than for a chat every now and then? They have little reason to inhabit the same virtual world.

Or why aren't there competing worlds for that matter? Not everyone has the same interests and desire. You have Android and iOS users. Why hasn't someone started a competing world? Maybe one where you can fight boxing matches and where you do have violence.

 

[simpsonkeith9]

thank you all i appreciate your answers. the secondary world is perfect until the ones that control it (the druids) create a war mode to fight the ethereals, which are super users they created to keep peace in the secondary world. they realize the ethereals have too much power and the only way to get rid of them is to create the war mode and start the druid-ethereal war, where pretty much all druids and ethereals die leaving no order in the secondary reality. after this happens the Despotics (bad guys) use their influence to recruit users in both the secondary reality and the real world to cause chaos so they can control everything. the "perfect" secondary reality is no longer perfect as there is now war and starts to mimic the real world. the heroes fight to overthrow the Despotics as well as find and remove "war mode" to bring the secondary back to the perfect reality it was made for that had no war, povery, disease etc.

 

[pmmg]

why would they want to return home when the secondary reality is better than the real world...there is no issues in the secondary reality but if they went back to the "real world" they could be faced with the issues we deal with today

I can think of some reasons, not the least of which being, I'd rather enjoy the company of real people than artificial ones, particularly those I am amorously interested in.

I am not sure how to help with this. I feel the questions are just gong to start piling up. I don't get a sense that you have a fleshed out idea of the alien race.

If it helps, I get an image similar to Alita Battle Angel, or Coruscant for the virtual world. Tall buildings high above everyone else where the elites are, and lower levels where all the life happens. Or maybe something like New Genesis from the DCU, or even Kyrpton.

But, without an understanding of the Alien side of this, its just whatever. What is it that you imagine for the virtual would.


MIght not a worthy goal be to destroy it entirely, and bring people back to living in real worlds?

 

[Queshire]

There's lots of themes you can play around with when it comes to virtual reality. Running away from reality is just one of them, and it doesn't sound like the one Simpson is aiming for.

 

[Finchbearer]

But if you have a story where most people would rather spend time in a virtual reality then what is that if it’s not running away from reality?

 

[Queshire]

Oh sure, don't get me wrong. Virtual reality easily lends itself to the theme of running away from reality. It's not the only theme you can explore with it however.

You know those stories where they have sympathetic androids or robots and use that to explore themes of what makes a person count as a person rather than a machine? While less common, I've seen those similar themes tackled using AI in a virtual reality instead. I've also seen it used to allow characters to explore who they are absent of the pressures from their previous life. It's like, I don't know? A fantasy prince getting stranded somewhere far away and they end up becoming a baker's assistant to make ends meet only to find out that they like being a baker a lot more than being a prince? Only instead of that it'd be the prince logging into an MMO and finding they like the low pressure that comes from just being another guy.

Well, that last one is a bit harder to do if people keep their same body in the virtual reality world as the real world, but you get my point.

 

[Finchbearer]

The questions I am asking with the OP are, why would the secondary reality be able to eliminate poverty and disease when the real world cannot? Eliminating poverty and disease is also asking a lot of bigger questions, considering the real world has not been able to do this, no matter how many resources we throw at things. Why? Because humans are greedy, and complex, and flawed and so on… those are aspects you would need to explore in my opinion, to bolster this claim of eliminating poverty and disease.

You also have the problem of the virtual reality crossing over with real life. Where does the secondary reality end and real life begin? How does virtual reality tech eliminate something like the common cold? How does virtual reality change someone who is living in poverty and bring them out of that?

You’d do well to address these thing first, rather than explain everything away with *because technology!* and it is the same with fantasy, if everything is explained away with *because magic!* then what is the purpose of the story in the first place?

With sci-fi I think you do have the opportunity to ask big existential questions, and doing this may give your story more impact.

I would also be asking who made the secondary reality tech in the first place, because like Silicon Valley, pools and pools of investment goes into a single project, and often it’s all about profit. So who wanted to bring this tech to the foreground, and what reasons did they have in making it? There are usually reasons that are along the lines of mass control and data collection for getting everyone to use the same technology, so, how do they use this data? Are they all just test subjects? Are they seeing how people like to live and how they can exploit this by bringing out new product? Sound familiar??

To answer your question, I think you’d do well to answer the above questions first. Generally speaking, why do we have different countries and subdivisions of land in real life? Because humans are territorial and greedy. Why would it be any different in an alternate reality. Go down the road of making everyone share the same space and you’re looking at communism, which has a flurry of its own issues, as there are many real world examples of that not quite working out…

 

[Queshire]

Not to be contradicatory, (I just find this type of stuff cool) but dreaming up the sort of technology that could do that sort of stuff and thinking about its effect on society is half the fun.