Building A Trade Empire On Guano?

[Orc Knight]

So, as out of there as this may seem, has been a particular bit of world building I've been thinking on a bit lately.

As it stands, in one of my stories, what might as well be a large trade empire has made one of it's stakes more or less on guano. It is a large tropical nation that also has a lot of the regular sorts of exports (sugar/lumber/salt/spices), but it trades heavily in guano with a vaguely Chinese nation that uses it both for soil and also for black powder for weaponry. Also sent to allied nations that know how to create it too. The nation itself has also just recently learned about saltpeter as a key component to it and has no short abundance of what it needs to create it.

Guess what I'm wondering is if you've had any sort of slightly strange sorts of trade in your own world building? Albeit, in the real world, there has been actual wars over guano, which was were I kind of got this entire idea from.

 

[pmmg]

Not much economy in my story. Some trades come up. The most detailed is a fur trade and later a slave trade. Some piracy.

Some places have their main exports mentioned but its not a big part of the story.

No guano.

 

[Finchbearer]

Is guano bat poo?

I think in terms of creating a material coveted for trade you could use literally anything, you just have to create that suspension of reality, as in make it so the reader really believes in guano as being very valuable and lucrative for trade.

To me, soil and powder for weaponry does not connote high value stakes.

One RW example would be peat bogs in Scotland that was widely harvested for use in the horticultural industry, which has now been out-phased for it negative environmental impacts, but Scotlands main export and source of income is whiskey, which is traditionally made by using peat, so they have no problems about using it in that respect and it’s akin to brown gold. You’d have to make guano as valuable as, well, gold.

 

[Finchbearer]

To extend on that, if guano produces soil, then that is more of a conduit product, so whatever you grow in it or use it for holds the real value, just like whiskey, yes it needs peat for an authentic production, but the real value item there is the whiskey not the peat.

 

[Orc Knight]

To me, soil and powder for weaponry does not connote high value stakes.

It may not, but as I stated, there's been several actual wars fought over guano in real life. And also, it's bat or bird crap as you said. Seems kind of ridiculous, yes, but hey, real life is full of all sorts of things like that. It's also kind of important to the story, if not the trade, but the fact gunpowder and guns and cannons finally get to the nation in question.

The Smithsonian and the 19th century guano trade: This poop is crap

americanhistory.si.edu

When The Western World Ran on Guano

A new natural fuel is discovered. It's so efficient, the initial science is unbelievable; so powerful, it revolutionizes an entire industry. Deposit-holding...

www.atlasobscura.com

Some articles dug up on it. Somewhat amusing and not terribly surprising even the US had a hand in some of it.

 

[Ban]

Makes perfect sense. Considering guano made the minuscule nation of Nauru briefly one of the wealthiest countries in the world, a far larger island with even greater phosphate deposits could reasonably build an empire off it (provided no outside power beats them to it through colonization). As for my own writing, it has been a while since I fleshed out a full world, and the regions I do focus on in my stories tend to be peripheral. I enjoy writing about the forgotten corners of civilization, though that does leave me without much in terms of wealth or resources to discuss. Lumber, dog's wool, sheep's wool, seafood, icewine and chalk are the mainstays of the strongman story's land, but they are far from a major economic player.

 

[Finchbearer]

It would have to be very localised, because even peppercorns were more valuable than something like guano. How in your fantasy world would you make it so sought after? As an ingredient of gunpowder, or for agricultural purposes? And why would those things be in high demand therefore?

In my own worldbuilding stone like mundane granite has a high value for its magical conduit properties over something like gold.

 

[Orc Knight]

More gunpowder then agriculture, as there are several nations that have use of firearms that they don't. They also happen to be warring, so the trade is currently at a bit of a boom. And the world lacks the sort of magic, so this is sort of a tipping point. It's not to really come up until all the realpolitik stuff comes in. It's admittedly not a perfect concept, but the advent of firearms in warfare in a place that doesn't yet have them as it too falls into it's own wars.

The world itself is also more spec bio with a heavier focus on the birdies/dinos, so it can be a large trade item, at least on the main continent. I just figured it was something a little out there and perhaps not nominally what one would figure as a primary export from a tropical nation in a time before refrigeration.

 

[Ban]

It would have to be very localised, because even peppercorns were more valuable than something like guano. How in your fantasy world would you make it so sought after? As an ingredient of gunpowder, or for agricultural purposes? And why would those things be in high demand therefore?

In my own worldbuilding stone like mundane granite has a high value for its magical conduit properties over something like gold.

Guano contains high amounts of phosphate, which is necessary in modern agriculture as a potent fertilizer. If we were to run out of it, or if the trade routes dry up somehow, the amount of agriculture most soil is capable of would quickly diminish, leading to severe decreases in global agricultural output. This would in our world cause mass famine. You can derive phosphate from other sources, but guano's use as fertilizer is immense. In a world where guano is used en masse, its continued import would become a mandatory lifeline.

 

[Finchbearer]

Guano contains high amounts of phosphate, which is necessary in modern agriculture as a potent fertilizer. If we were to run out of it, or if the trade routes dry up somehow, the amount of agriculture most soil is capable of would quickly diminish, leading to severe decreases in global agricultural output. This would in our world cause mass famine. You can derive phosphate from other sources, but guano's use as fertilizer is immense. In a world where guano is used en masse, its continued import would become a mandatory lifeline.

In agricultural terms, it’s not used half as much as it once was, and there are many organic (and non-organic) alternative ways to fertilise and improve soil structure and fertility by means of replacing nitrogen amongst other key things. Modern agricultural practices deplete soil structure anyway and that’s a separate issue… If orc knight is writing in a historical context then I think it would make a lot of sense, yes. But it still wouldn’t be very valuable as a commodity I don’t think unless very localised.

 

[Orc Knight]

Well, relatively historical context and while the world is somewhat like our own, it also very much isn't. The sea trade tends to be a lot larger and somewhat easier due to the Verdant Sea, the large shallow sea between the three large continents. Xi being the primary importer of it for their weaponry in their own part of an expansionist war on their own end.

 

[pmmg]

Would the aspect that makes guano good for gunpowder deteriorate on a long voyage? It might not be pleasant but the chemicals may remain.

 

[Queshire]

The chemicals are what makes it good for gunpowder.

 

[Finchbearer]

More gunpowder then agriculture, as there are several nations that have use of firearms that they don't. They also happen to be warring, so the trade is currently at a bit of a boom. And the world lacks the sort of magic, so this is sort of a tipping point. It's not to really come up until all the realpolitik stuff comes in. It's admittedly not a perfect concept, but the advent of firearms in warfare in a place that doesn't yet have them as it too falls into it's own wars.

The world itself is also more spec bio with a heavier focus on the birdies/dinos, so it can be a large trade item, at least on the main continent. I just figured it was something a little out there and perhaps not nominally what one would figure as a primary export from a tropical nation in a time before refrigeration.

I think it is interesting, and if you have a seafaring culture, then the harvesting of guano would be something you could include into the storyline? Maybe follow those unlucky souls who have to go harvest that smelly stuff! Seaweed is also an amazing soil fertilizer, maybe they could grab some of that while they’re at it. Not sure about its usability in the making of gunpowder though!

 

[Orc Knight]

I'm already planning on including at least a portion of it into the story line, as, again, early firearms are finding their way in and Saiwai, the nation in question, has recently cracked the gunpowder formula along with getting some early chemists over to really kick off production. Under the guise of something else, but the plot kicks off before it can come to fruition, due to both inside and outside politics. So, as per usual fantasy norms, war done broke out.

As for kelp and kelp farming, probably another on thing more kept to the background world building. As it's also used as a food source for plenty of the coastal areas along with the fish, reptiles, birds and other flora and fauna on the world that's edible. Again, one of the main reasons it came up as a primary trade item was an excess of birds and their crap and the Xi being allied with Saiwai using them as an important source to help wage their own wars. Albulan (think heavily Africa and South America) has several nations that also trade for it and thus are also in alliance with Saiwai, along with other trade goods coming down from the north of Saiwai.

 

[Queshire]

Strange trade stuff, eh?

Well I should probably start with my continued efforts to make a setting that works of video game logic but has in universe reasons for why it works as it does.

Fiends, a variety of monster, are the result of an item that gathers enough mana to develop a spirit which then congeals a physical body around said item. Kill them and you can get the item that formed their core, which, considering that it's been bathing in the fiend's mana for all that time, is likely naturally enchanted. Sometimes you wind up pulling a magical sword from an eight headed snake of legend. Other times you get a bag of chips from the previous civilization that has enough Life mana in it to work as a natural healing potion.

Other monster drops depends on what happens to the monster's mana upon death.

1) Most of the mana is dispersed into the environment. Mages can capture that mana and use it cultivate with, but that's a separate topic.
2) Some of the mana congeals into Mana Crystals. This is cash. Well, honestly it's more like a prospector using a gold nugget to pay for something. There's still formally minted forms of currency, but Mana Crystals are useful enough that in a pinch you can use them as cash just about anywhere.
3) Essence Crystals are the same as Mana Crystals, but they have a high enough elemental purity to have a specific element such as a Fire Essence Crystal. Used for crafting or for to cultivate for a mage with a matching element, but aren't as easy to use as pure cash as mana crystals.
4) Rarely the crystals will form around the monster's mana channels upon death and preserve them like a bug in amber. Theses spell shards can be used like Materia from Final Fantasy VII with the magic they hold based off the abilities of the monsters. These are the real money makers.
5) Finally, instead of taking crystal form or disperse the mana occasionally infuses specific parts of the monster's body like a drake's hide, slime's liver or the fangs of a dire wolf. Useful for crafting.

One of the major forms of large scale trade is in Elemental Essence in the form of Essence Crystals. Monsters produce Essence Crystals, but that's not the primary method of obtaining them. A portion of a farm's crop is set aside to be refined into Wood Essence Crystals, Fish are refined into pearls of Water Essence Crystals, miles of mirrors set up in an array in the desert concentrate the noon day sun to be refined into highly potent Light Essence Crystals and so on. Having access to a wellspring of rare essence such as Hearth or Order essence can be very profitable for the group that controls it. It's kinda like discovering oil.

 

[Miles Lacey]

The biggest export of the island of Pounamu is... pounamu. Pounamu is a green stone that has magical properties. It's used in the manufacture of magical artifacts. It's an extremely valuable stone and wars have been fought for control over this island in order to get control over the pounamu. It is currently occupied by the Banjari Empire: a tropical maritime Empire that is largely built on the spice trade and various hard to obtain resources like precious stones.

However there is one thing about the pounamu that makes it unique. Only people who have the so-called Kura gene can touch it. The only people who have this gene are those who are gifted with the magical arts when they turn sixteen years of age and the indigenous people of Pounamu. Anyone without the Kura gene is killed instantly if they touch the pounamu.

The indigenous people of Pounamu have become very rich and powerful because of their ability to touch pounamu. They are hired to quarry it, transport it, carve it into magical artefacts, store it and trade it with mages.

 

[Finchbearer]

This thread has made me think about sources of trade, or what trade a story could revolve around, and actually tulips come to mind, at one point holding the same value as gold. I am game for writing a horticultural fantasy story.

 

[Rexenm]

I thought that guano was bat poo that you could eat. For a while I thought this till I was corrected. Now I am aware that it is harvested, but there is still some truth to it. The documentary I was referring to was concerned with edible birds nests. There are some strange delicacies out there. You could build up to any meal, if you were provided the right spices.