world building tips ?

[Yaron P]

Hey everyone if you see this post I am very happy then , you know , it is my first writing a book and I am not very knowledgeable about worldbuilding . I do have an ideal world for my book though .

 

[Finchbearer]

Foxkeyes ?

 

[Yaron P]

Foxkeyes ?

what?

 

[Finchbearer]

what?

Sorry, it’s another site member who knows a lot about worldbuilding. Maybe I should have said that.

 

[Yaron P]

Sorry, it’s another site member who knows a lot about worldbuilding. Maybe I should have said that.

yes well thank you

 

[Prince of Spires]

In my opinion, if it's your first book, don't worry too much about world building and just tell the story you want to tell. You can fill in the details you need as you go along.

Couple of reasons for that:
- you wont know what you will actually need to worldbuild. For instance, you could spend years developing a language system. But if your tell is only about a group of kids in a single city, then that's wasted time. Equally, you could work out the entire history of your world. But if you end up writing a heist story, then again that's wasted time.

These are some big, extreme examples just to illustrate the issue. But it's about smaller things as well. Maybe as you write you find that a character is into fashion, in which case you need to spend time developing that. Or food or whatever. But with a first book, you'll likely have no idea.

- you still have a lot to learn about writing itself. Writing your first book will teach you a lot about writing and telling a story. Focus on that. It will lead to a better story.

Of course, you can develop your world a bit. Work out the bits you need and just handwave the rest.

 

[Yaron P]

you right thank you , it not really my first book it just that it is the first book I'm taking seriously , I want to make this book a publishing series.

 

[John M]

I think world building is a very personal thing and everyone does it differently / have their own formula that works best for them. What I think is important is to recognise your ability and limitations. For me, when I started writing I wanted to create a whole new world, filled with lots of countries, cultures and an army of character. It was set in a sort of mid evil time where the people spoke in old english dialects and wore clothes inspired from that time too. After about 40k words I gave up on this because I realised it was way to complicated and way above my knowledge and skill level. English isn't my first language, how am I suppose to write proper old english dialects? I have no particular knowledge of mid evil history, no knowledge of armour, warfare, how to tend to horses and so on. How would I create societies based on these things? It just was not working.

So I sat myself down and asked myself what I could do, and what was realistic world building for me. I ended up writing a urban fantasy set in modern day London. Why? Because I could write the dialogue in modern day english, I have lived in London so I know the city, and with magical realism you can use a lot of aspects of modern day society to create your world. My advise to you is stick to stuff you know (or at least gather inspiration from it). Are there myths and mythology from where ever it is you come from that you know and can use? Are there aspects of your home town you could implement? Do you have particular knowledge or interests that could be utilised to create a fantasy setting for your book? I think when you use elements and experiences from your own life and the world around you in your writing it becomes more alive. Just look at Tolkien, he took part in World War 1 and drew a lot of inspiration from the stuff he witnessed there in the Lord of the Rings. Oh and lastly, please dont write another vampire or werewolf story, there are enough of those out there as it is haha.

 

[Azul-din]

I agree totally with John. Write what you know, take details from the world around you, stir briskly and then add the magic ingredient of your choice. From then on it's blue skies all the way. I wish.

 

[Yaron P]

I agree totally with John. Write what you know, take details from the world around you, stir briskly and then add the magic ingredient of your choice. From then on it's blue skies all the way. I wish.

thank you , I am writing about what I know it just I want to expand it a little and if I don't know something and it is for a book I am writing I go and learn it . it is just as fun for me as writing the actual chapter because it's give me new version or new idea , and because I always think of something new I thought I will write some fundamental things like certain energy or monsters/ beasts who are made originally by me and so on

 

[skip.knox]

World building is a very large topic. It's like saying, what can you folks tell me about physics? (except physics is easier!)

Instead, maybe you could say what sort of world building you're looking for. Do you need advice on economics? Social structure? The physical world? Politics?

And what, in any or all that, are you needing specifically for this story? Is there something about building out the world that is hindering your ability to write? Are you looking merely for something splashy or colorful because the narrative feels humdrum right now? There can be a hundred reasons, but starting with zero reasons does make it difficult to have a helpful conversation.

 

[Yaron P]

World building is a very large topic. It's like saying, what can you folks tell me about physics? (except physics is easier!)

Instead, maybe you could say what sort of world building you're looking for. Do you need advice on economics? Social structure? The physical world? Politics?

And what, in any or all that, are you needing specifically for this story? Is there something about building out the world that is hindering your ability to write? Are you looking merely for something splashy or colorful because the narrative feels humdrum right now? There can be a hundred reasons, but starting with zero reasons does make it difficult to have a helpful conversation.

you right I didn't think of the difficulty when I posted the post , well for something specify I don't know how to explain how to explain which country hold more money and which country hold which connection

 

[Mad Swede]

My advice would be very simple. Write the story, you'll find yourself adding the necessary details of the world as you go.

 

[Devor]

I like to break up the worldbuilding into five parts: Ecology, Magic, Combat*, Political History, and Culture. You can take each topic however far you want. Ecology can be, "Hrmm, similar to Germany, but with dragons" or you can detail the landscape, name the rivers, create a slew of new creatures, and so on. It's all about what matters for your story and your characters.

I've got an asterisk besides Combat. What I really want to know is, what does the action in my story look like? Are there swords and spells or guns or what? If this was Harry Potter, just for an example, I might be thinking magic spells here, but I might also be thinking about Quidditch. I need to know what how the characters hold their own in a pinch.

 

[Yaron P]

I like to break up the worldbuilding into five parts: Ecology, Magic, Combat*, Political History, and Culture. You can take each topic however far you want. Ecology can be, "Hrmm, similar to Germany, but with dragons" or you can detail the landscape, name the rivers, create a slew of new creatures, and so on. It's all about what matters for your story and your characters.

I've got an asterisk besides Combat. What I really want to know is, what does the action in my story look like? Are there swords and spells or guns or what? If this was Harry Potter, just for an example, I might be thinking magic spells here, but I might also be thinking about Quidditch. I need to know what how the characters hold their own in a pinch.

I see thank you very much that really helped, I am pretty new to all this worldbuilding setting organization so I am really thankful for how you explained it , well as for the rest of I guess I just need to investigate more about the thing I want to , the thing I need to add and the thing which hinder my work .but it really helped me thank you very much .

 

[skip.knox]

> which country hold more money and which country hold which connection

Hm. The first clause is clear enough. Which country is wealthiest. And why do you want to know that? It's ok to be merely curious. It's ok to want to decorate. But it's important to be able to distinguish between what is merely decorative and what is necessary to the story. There's not an easy way to do that; you just have to practice, which is to say you just have to start writing. Then write some more. And still more.

But I'll offer a simplistic example, which might provide at least a starting point for thinking about this. Let's consider a major character--the lead, the villain, main supporting characters--that level of importance. OK. So, that character needs a name. You simply aren't going to be able to write a full-length novel without a name (even if the name is something like "the traveler"). That is necessary, which in turn means it's something you need to get sorted fairly early on.

What color eyes does your MC have? It probably doesn't matter. That's what I mean by decorative. Now, maybe you have a magical character and their eyes change color with their mood. Unless some crucial event happens based on that change, the eye color is decorative. You don't need to get it sorted now (though you will during copyedit need to make sure it's consistent!).

Where is your MC's home? That's slipperier. At one extreme, you can treat it as decorative. You don't need to say anything about it, even though you've maybe put hours of thought to the topic. If it doesn't further the story, it doesn't belong in the story. But maybe it *does* further the story. Maybe the MC comes from a place that is despised by some other character. Or the place is war-torn and this has affected our MC. Now the information moves beyond decorative toward the necessary.

A good example is with Conan. We know he comes from Cimmeria. We know Cimmeria is a northern place and is cold. We know it got invaded and that Conan fled the invaders.

That's really all REH gave us. Maybe he had a whole history of Cimmeria worked out, had a medium of exchange, drew maps, has lists of rulers. I doubt it; Howard was a pulp writer and moved fast. My point here is that none of that is in the stories. Cold, bleak, far north. That's about it. And why are those details present in the stories? Because they help establish who Conan is and why he is that way. In short, it is necessary.

Write some. Write some more. Write still more. You'll get a feel for it.

I can't make the second clause of the quoted statement make sense. You use the word "connection" but you don't say what is connecting to what. We need more information. But even once you've made it explicit, the same considerations as above will apply.

 

[Yaron P]

> which country hold more money and which country hold which connection

Hm. The first clause is clear enough. Which country is wealthiest. And why do you want to know that? It's ok to be merely curious. It's ok to want to decorate. But it's important to be able to distinguish between what is merely decorative and what is necessary to the story. There's not an easy way to do that; you just have to practice, which is to say you just have to start writing. Then write some more. And still more.

But I'll offer a simplistic example, which might provide at least a starting point for thinking about this. Let's consider a major character--the lead, the villain, main supporting characters--that level of importance. OK. So, that character needs a name. You simply aren't going to be able to write a full-length novel without a name (even if the name is something like "the traveler"). That is necessary, which in turn means it's something you need to get sorted fairly early on.

What color eyes does your MC have? It probably doesn't matter. That's what I mean by decorative. Now, maybe you have a magical character and their eyes change color with their mood. Unless some crucial event happens based on that change, the eye color is decorative. You don't need to get it sorted now (though you will during copyedit need to make sure it's consistent!).

Where is your MC's home? That's slipperier. At one extreme, you can treat it as decorative. You don't need to say anything about it, even though you've maybe put hours of thought to the topic. If it doesn't further the story, it doesn't belong in the story. But maybe it *does* further the story. Maybe the MC comes from a place that is despised by some other character. Or the place is war-torn and this has affected our MC. Now the information moves beyond decorative toward the necessary.

A good example is with Conan. We know he comes from Cimmeria. We know Cimmeria is a northern place and is cold. We know it got invaded and that Conan fled the invaders.

That's really all REH gave us. Maybe he had a whole history of Cimmeria worked out, had a medium of exchange, drew maps, has lists of rulers. I doubt it; Howard was a pulp writer and moved fast. My point here is that none of that is in the stories. Cold, bleak, far north. That's about it. And why are those details present in the stories? Because they help establish who Conan is and why he is that way. In short, it is necessary.

Write some. Write some more. Write still more. You'll get a feel for it.

I can't make the second clause of the quoted statement make sense. You use the word "connection" but you don't say what is connecting to what. We need more information. But even once you've made it explicit, the same considerations as above will apply.

I am speechless , putting my hat down for you . thank you for the effort .

 

[Devor]

you right I didn't think of the difficulty when I posted the post , well for something specify I don't know how to explain how to explain which country hold more money and which country hold which connection

I'm going to try and answer that one.

Countries need five raw materials to prosper: Grain (i.e., farmland), Livestock, Timber, Stone, and Iron. A country that lacks too many of these is going to be poorer because they have to trade for them. A country that has lots of these will be prosperous. You would also want to trade these with your closest neighbors, and protect your access to those goods, which is how tight alliances form or the reason wars are fought If your ally turns on you, and now you can't buy stone, then you're in a lot of trouble.

But then there's the next level of the economy. Countries begin to turn these items into specialties that can't be found anywhere else. That is, they learn to develop rare Spices, Wine and Liquor, Fabrics and Clothes, Housewares, and Jewelry. These are the industries that bring a lot of international wealth into a nation. This is also where you start to see merchants gain power because they can have much more control over the making and distributing of these goods. And merchants have different interests than governments, like protecting secrets and securing trade routes to far off places.

I've mentioned five things in each group. But there are others, depending on the time and place. Oil, fish and salt might fall into the raw materials group. Books, cheese, and weapons might fall into the crafted goods group. But that should cover most of it.

 

[Yaron P]

I'm going to try and answer that one.

Countries need five raw materials to prosper: Grain (i.e., farmland), Livestock, Timber, Stone, and Iron. A country that lacks too many of these is going to be poorer because they have to trade for them. A country that has lots of these will be prosperous. You would also want to trade these with your closest neighbors, and protect your access to those goods, which is how tight alliances form or the reason wars are fought If your ally turns on you, and now you can't buy stone, then you're in a lot of trouble.

But then there's the next level of the economy. Countries begin to turn these items into specialties that can't be found anywhere else. That is, they learn to develop rare Spices, Wine and Liquor, Fabrics and Clothes, Housewares, and Jewelry. These are the industries that bring a lot of international wealth into a nation. This is also where you start to see merchants gain power because they can have much more control over the making and distributing of these goods. And merchants have different interests than governments, like protecting secrets and securing trade routes to far off places.

I've mentioned five things in each group. But there are others, depending on the time and place. Oil, fish and salt might fall into the raw materials group. Books, cheese, and weapons might fall into the crafted goods group. But that should cover most of it.

thank you

 

[Prince of Spires]

An interesting thing about worldbuilding is that people often point to Tolkien as being the gold standard. However, what most people forget is that he did most of his worldbuilding not in the form of encyclopedia like entries. Rather, he just wrote stories where he explored his world. The reason he knew who Hurin was, was not that he'd sat down to write a timeline and figure out the important export of Beleriand. He just wrote the story of Hurin.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do any note taking or making lists or drawing up genealogies or whatever. You can and in some cases you should (and Tolkien also did). However, it's just as important I think to put story first.