Calculating radius of empire increasing

[fantastic]

What would you need to calculate how fast empire increases its radius and what its radius is?

You would probably need the speed of how fast its forces are, time it takes to defeat opposing kingdom, time it takes for ordinary people to start living in the new part of empire.

What else do you need and how do you calculate it?

 

[X Equestris]

I'm a little confused by what you're asking. Empires don't expand equidistantly from their centers.

Also, unless you conduct a very large scale genocide or relocation campaign, there will already be people living in the new territory. What will take time is integrating them into your empire, getting them to think of themselves as citizens or subjects of X instead of Y. You'll have Xs moving into this new territory too, but the population will still ethnically be mostly Y.

 

[Russ]

I am with X Eq.

The question, as posed, is virtually unanswerable.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

As the others have said the question is unanswerable. There are two parts to increasing the size of your empire. The first is the military campaign and overwhelming enemy forces. This will vary massively according to your forces and the various enemy forces, how stretched you are, supply routes etc. Take a look at the conquests of Alexander the Great for one idea as to how this can progress.

But after the military conquest comes the battle for hearts and minds. Think the Roman Empire where even though territories had been conquered it took centuries for the people of those conquered territories to feel that they were Roman.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[valiant12]

It depends on the people or person in charge of the empire. If the leader is overly ambitious his empire will expand very quickly.However he probably will spread his resources very thinly waging war on multiple fronts and his empire will collapse in its dawn.Also a wise leader will focus on strategic objectives like capturing area of land which are easy to defend or a rich gold deposits. Humans usually go to war make there lives(or more often there leaders) better by seizing more wealth. A wise emperor who control a lot of rich provinces will spend most of his resources to protect the rich provinces, instead of trying to expand further.If conquering a region cost more than the wealth you can extract from it then you shouldn't bother with conquering it.

 

[fantastic]

I am with X Eq.

The question, as posed, is virtually unanswerable.

Could you help me rephrase the question? What I need to know is how big the empire is, if I know how big it was and how much time has passed since then. Of course, if empire was growing all that time in all directions.

I would assume that mathematical model would make growth slower over time because if force to get new land was the same, it would take them more time to go to all directions. And then to return to the part that belonged to empire would take more time because empire would be bigger.

I am not sure, feel free to ask if I didn't explain something. I am not sure myself, all the factors I need to consider.

 

[Russ]

WE could start with simple things like, what is "the empire"?

Empires are not governed by mathematical models related to area. The expansion rate depends on boatloads of variables that cannot be reduced to a formula like that. Weather, technology, culture, religion, etc of both the empire and the nations it is expanding against are all variables you need to understand and cannot be reduced to simple math.

The scale you want isn't even specified...if it is the empire in Star Wars we are talking parsecs or light years perhaps. If it is the Habsburg empire we are talking miles.

Some idea of how the answer is to be used would help.

But at the end of the process I think anyone could tell you that it is not something that can be calculated to a standard.

I guess if you wanted you could get a map of the empire you are modelling every 50 years or so and do the calculation yourself, but I am not sure what good it would do you. But you could try that and report your findings back.

 

[valiant12]

Of course, if empire was growing all that time in all directions.

That's not very realistic. Your empire will probably fall if it wage war on multiple fronts for an extended period of time. Also the bigger the empire gets, the higher the cost of maintaining it- the military cost to maintain the conquered people and your own people who live far enough from the empire core territories to develop their own culture in check will be enormous. That would put a strain on the empire's finances and will limit further expansion.

 

[MineOwnKing]

Too many variables.

You could compile historical data from various ages and cultures, but those cases would be unique to themselves.

I think you're trying too hard.

 

[X Equestris]

The growth of empires is impossible to predict. Alexander the Great conquered the entire Achaemenid Persian empire and beyond in his very brief lifetime. It took Rome centuries to reach the size that it did, and it shed some of those provinces not long after it conquered them.

 

[fantastic]

WE could start with simple things like, what is "the empire"?

Empires are not governed by mathematical models related to area. The expansion rate depends on boatloads of variables that cannot be reduced to a formula like that. Weather, technology, culture, religion, etc of both the empire and the nations it is expanding against are all variables you need to understand and cannot be reduced to simple math.

The scale you want isn't even specified...if it is the empire in Star Wars we are talking parsecs or light years perhaps. If it is the Habsburg empire we are talking miles.

Some idea of how the answer is to be used would help.

But at the end of the process I think anyone could tell you that it is not something that can be calculated to a standard.

I guess if you wanted you could get a map of the empire you are modelling every 50 years or so and do the calculation yourself, but I am not sure what good it would do you. But you could try that and report your findings back.

Well, in World that is infinite there is an empire. It keeps growing and increasing in all directions. It is the only real empire. There are other far weaker kingdoms, of course. But they are all just obstacles that make empire take more time to get new lands. They represent no danger because of the far greater power of the empire.

Imperator is an immortal who already has pretty much anything someone could wish for. But he believes he is entitled to ruling entire world, so he keeps increasing his empire trying to rule the world that is infinite.

I am trying to get an idea of how big his empire is.

 

[Russ]

How big do you think it is? How big do you want it to be? How do you expect someone to calculate this?

I am beginning to think you are actually just trolling us on this.

 

[fantastic]

How big do you think it is? How big do you want it to be? How do you expect someone to calculate this?

I am beginning to think you are actually just trolling us on this.

It is huge. But not having numbers could be problematic, especially in terms of time it takes characters to cross the empire.

There are many things that can be calculated if you have all the information about starting situation. I thought some people among you might have faced similar problem if you knew there was a kingdom and wondered how much it could have increased realistically.

What makes you think I am trolling? English is not my native language but I am trying to express myself as well as I can.

 

[valiant12]

Only one empire exist in an infinite world?
What kind of technology did the empire have? If the empire is so big, and poses only pre industrial level of technology how the emperor communicate and gives orders to his generals. And even if the empire poses technology or magic far superior than modern real world technology, what is keeping the people below the emperor from rebelling- especially the richest nobles who are directly below the emperor in the hierarchy.One man ruling an infinite world is pushing the suspension of disbelief too much.

 

[fantastic]

Only one empire exist in an infinite world?
What kind of technology did the empire have? If the empire is so big, and poses only pre industrial level of technology how the emperor communicate and gives orders to his generals. And even if the empire poses technology or magic far superior than modern real world technology, what is keeping the people below the emperor from rebelling- especially the richest nobles who are directly below the emperor in the hierarchy.One man ruling an infinite world is pushing the suspension of disbelief too much.

As I said there are many kingdoms. Well, kingdoms, countries and other forms. However, none compares to the empire I mentioned.

Why would empire have only pre industrial level of technology?

Richest nobles have little reason to rebel. Granted, some do have reason. But the fact is, the imperator is still the one with the mightiest army in the world.

And there are many rebellions. It is just that they always fail.

Imperator does not rule the world. He rules his empire, which is the greatest in the world. Ruling the world is his ambition.

But please, I want to learn more about what you think since I never shared my idea about this.

 

[X Equestris]

Mighty armies are all well and good, but difficulty arises when you're in a vast empire and have relatively slow means of communication and troop movement. You can't bring your entire force to bear on an enemy, you can't move troops fast enough to respond to threats, and you might not even know about them until quite a while later. And then there would be inevitable corruption issues in a government that big.

The British, at the height of their power, still had difficulty defeating the Boers. Despite its vastly superior military, the United States was only able to partially relocate the Seminoles from Florida to Indian Territory. In Vietnam, the U.S. was only able to force a cease fire, which lasted a few years before North Vietnam broke it and South Vietnam crumbled without foreign military aid. Likewise, the Soviets suffered horrid casualties in Afghanistan, and was ultimately forced to entirely abandon the country.

 

[fantastic]

Mighty armies are all well and good, but difficulty arises when you're in a vast empire and have relatively slow means of communication and troop movement. You can't bring your entire force to bear on an enemy, you can't move troops fast enough to respond to threats, and you might not even know about them until quite a while later. And then there would be inevitable corruption issues in a government that big.

The British, at the height of their power, still had difficulty defeating the Boers. Despite its vastly superior military, the United States was only able to partially relocate the Seminoles from Florida to Indian Territory. In Vietnam, the U.S. was only able to force a cease fire, which lasted a few years before North Vietnam broke it and South Vietnam crumbled without foreign military aid. Likewise, the Soviets suffered horrid casualties in Afghanistan, and was ultimately forced to entirely abandon the country.

Well, I wouldn't say they have slow means of communication or troop movement. It is hard to describe. It is a highly advanced empire both technologically and in terms of magic. Granted, you are right that these flaws could be exploited if the empire had strong opponents. But their opponents are not capable of fighting them. Well, they try but the empire is too strong. The empire is not medieval.

 

[Penpilot]

The simple answer is the empire is as big as you want it to be and has expanded at any rate you want.

You can have a ruler that pushes conquests, so the empire expands faster. You can have a cautious ruler that consolidates conquests before moving on. Sometimes conquest doesn't mean taking on more land. It just means taking what you can and burning the rest.

I agree with X Equestris. One of the challenges of ruling a vast empire is communication. If it takes weeks or months or even longer to get a message from the outermost part of the empire to the capital, then local rule will still be norm. And IMHO the harder it will be to keep the empire together.

 

[X Equestris]

Well, I wouldn't say they have slow means of communication or troop movement. It is hard to describe. It is a highly advanced empire both technologically and in terms of magic. Granted, you are right that these flaws could be exploited if the empire had strong opponents. But their opponents are not capable of fighting them. Well, they try but the empire is too strong. The empire is not medieval.

It doesn't have to be medieval for these factors to apply, especially in a world as vast as yours. It ends up being an issue of willpower. Is this swamp/mountainous region/woodland worth the troops and money we're losing to attempt to hold it? If it isn't, most great powers would simply leave it be.

 

[Russ]

What makes you think I am trolling? English is not my native language but I am trying to express myself as well as I can.

IT appears that the answer to your question is that the radius of the empire's territory will grow at the rate of 42 miles every 3.145 weeks.

The reason it appears that you are trolling is that you ask questions that cannot be meaningfully answered, don't say anything about scale or technology and then argue with people and correct them about your fictional world when they try to be helpful and provide useful answers despite the fact that you have not provided any useful information to answer the question.

And you are apparently old enough to understand basic logic.

Let me ask you this question. I have a container and it is pouring liquid onto a surface. What rate does the area of the surface covered by the liquid grow at? How much area will the liquid cover when the container is empty?