Can You Read?

[The Dark One]

I read a lot and always have, although in my teens, twenties and thirties I read obsessively (not counting the numerous uni courses I took in those days). I probably average about 3 books a fortnight these days - more on holidays - but I'd say every second book is one I've read before and loved. I'm so frequently disappointed by modern writers.

 

[Finchbearer]

I'm so frequently disappointed by modern writers.

Every time I open a new book I get that excitement out of the anticipation of whether it’s going to be brilliant, but, has commercialism killed creativity somewhat, or are we all just living in a culture vacuum?

 

[The Dark One]

Every time I open a new book I get that excitement out of the anticipation of whether it’s going to be brilliant, but, has commercialism killed creativity somewhat, or are we all just living in a culture vacuum?

I seriously believe that storytelling is becoming a lost art. So many books start with a decent premise but they rarely deliver a satisfying reading experience with beginning, middle and end.

It's what I most aspire to be - a good storyteller.

 

[pmmg]

I would think the opening of the indi publication path would be a push back on commercialism, and that if commercialism killed creativity, creativity would thrive there.

 

[Queshire]

Oh there's plenty of indie stuff out there. Questionable how much it pays and indie stuff tends to attract certain genres that might not be everyone's cup of tea, but lots of creative stuff out there.

 

[Finchbearer]

There’s definitely more genre stuff in self published works for sure, seeing as some niches are ‘not commercial’ to start with. I don’t think it makes a difference at this point, just maybe the overall writing quality is better in trad published stuff because it has to go through the wringer a bit more before it gets out into the world.

 

[JBCrowson]

Every time I open a new book I get that excitement out of the anticipation of whether it’s going to be brilliant, but, has commercialism killed creativity somewhat, or are we all just living in a culture vacuum?

I have no doubt when I look at sites like Reedsy that there is an industry built on pushing authors to becoming published authors. My own brushes with professional editing confirms that there are probably several stories I would have loved that were edited out of existence, but also many stories that were improved immensely as well.

 

[ThinkerX]

I would think the opening of the indi publication path would be a push back on commercialism, and that if commercialism killed creativity, creativity would thrive there.

As somebody who (used to) read a lot -

Yes. there is a *LOT* of indie books out there. However, most of them could stand substantial 'developmental editing.'

 

[A. E. Lowan]

*raises hand* Indie here. I think that the striking difference between indie and trad, even small press or micro publishers like us (soon to be ), is a combination of having access to editors on the publisher's dime and the often alarming ease of hitting that Publish button. I know a lot of authors, whatever variety they are, raise concerns about gatekeepers and commercialism destroying literature, but that smacks of shades of "You're destroying my childhood!" combined with a certain degree of elitism. It also goes a ways to explaining the "spewing sh!t volcano" of indie books, as Chuck Wendig has described it. I do know I hear declarations that they'll never read indie books, and this is a big reason why.

 

[Filifjonken]

I had a very long reading slump that lasted years due to things out of my control, but I started reading again around two years ago. I did almost nothing else but read when I was a kid, both comics and big heavy books, and now I'm back to doing that, as well as I can with my limited energy.

It varies a lot how quicky I get through books, and I switch between audiobooks and "actual" reading (audiobooks count as reading in my opinion, and stories are meant to be heard! However, I also personally crave to physically look at pretty prose, so I will have the actual book and a highlighter closeby if I have a copy)

Sometimes I can finish a 300 page book in a day, and sometimes I don't read for a week. I had a lot of guilt during my slump and I still do sometimes, but that was me being mean to myself for something I couldn't control.

At some point it stopped feeling like a chore I knew I'd never do (I had the desire and the want, but not the energy) and the things out of my control lessened, giving me more energy to spare. Reading somehow returned to something I'm annoyingly passionate about (prose, storytelling, writing, etc.) almost just like before I stopped, and I'm alright with that 'almost.' So I read a lot I think!

 

[skip.knox]

I said in a previous post that I still read. I also pointed out that there are many types of reading. I thought I'd offer some details about my own reading other that "reads regularly."

I nearly always have a fiction book in progress. Sometimes more than one. Right now I'm reading a WWII classic, The Cruel Sea, and am also reading James S.A. Corey's latest, The Mercy of Gods (SF). Lined up behind them is a collection of Dashiell Hammett's novels; that one's a re-read. And a Graham Greene is behind that.

Those are all physical books. Despite several declining physical systems, I try to keep reading physical books. It's a kind of nostalgia, I think.

I also read on my phone. I have tried e-readers, but the phone fits easily in my hand and travels with me more readily. The current e-book is the first volume in Katherine Kurtz's Camber series. A bunch of my fantasy reading has been virtual. I think this is no more than happenstance. It's worth stating that I do not read short stories, mainly because I begrudge the time and because I've been so disappointed in the form for quite a long time.

Every once in a while I'll read a history book (some of you know I'm a retired medieval historian). Last one was Roberts' biography of Napoleon. I'm not sure what will be next. I have my eye on Coulton or one (or more) of the Gies books. Something quotidian, anyway.

Last but far from least, I read online. This forum gets a fair portion of my attention. So does SFF Chronicles. A few groups on Facebook, mostly focused on the business side of writing. I'll read news articles when I get tired of the informal superficiality of TV reporting, and some of those articles can become extended.

Oh, and I read my own stuff. Over and over again, during the revision process.

These are all different kinds of reading. I don't read non-fiction in the same way I read fiction. Reading for editing is still another form. All are fragile, easy to disrupt. Seven years in graduate school all but killed my ability to read fiction, for example. For at least a couple of years after I left school, I found I was reading fiction books as if I was still doing research--skimming, noting beginnings and ends of chapters and paragraphs. I could tell you what the book was about but not whether I had enjoyed it, still less why. I had to force myself to slow down. Give the author an even break. And then there's the whole physical side of reading, which is subject to various stresses and crises.

In short, I totally get it when people say they don't read as much as they used to. It's not the quality of the work. There are far more brilliant books available than any of us have years in which to read them. The challenge is, reading is a higher-order activity that can be disrupted from every point of the compass. Continuing to read takes resolution, persistence, and a comfy chair.

 

[The Dark One]

There’s definitely more genre stuff in self published works for sure, seeing as some niches are ‘not commercial’ to start with. I don’t think it makes a difference at this point, just maybe the overall writing quality is better in trad published stuff because it has to go through the wringer a bit more before it gets out into the world.

This is far from an absolute, but there is also the Darwinian struggle before a ms gets through the door of a trade house in the first place.

So many try and so few succeed. I know (personally) that years of rejection forced me to keep lifting my game until I finally got a yes after 15 years of trying.

Having said that, so much trade published work is (IMnsHO) formulaic, derivative, hackneyed, poorly written and badly edited dross. But the publishers (for whatever reason) think it will sell.

The indie world does not have a mandate on the volcano spewing shit.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This is far from an absolute, but there is also the Darwinian struggle before a ms gets through the door of a trade house in the first place.

So many try and so few succeed. I know (personally) that years of rejection forced me to keep lifting my game until I finally got a yes after 15 years of trying.

Having said that, so much trade published work is (IMnsHO) formulaic, derivative, hackneyed, poorly written and badly edited dross. But the publishers (for whatever reason) think it will sell.

The indie world does not have a mandate on the volcano spewing shit.

It's because in Hollywood the demand is always the same, and it's spreading the contagion to publishing. "Give us the same thing, only different." And then they complain about us being formulaic, derivative, and hackneyed, while they keep "rebooting" stories we've all already seen.

And it's a business model that worked okay for years. But it's beginning to slip from its top status, and I think we may, eventually, get to a place where innovation in story telling - where bravery - counts for something.

 

[Finchbearer]

Genre stuff and work by established authors is all just bread and butter work for agents and publishers. Once in a while, like you say dark one, you’ll have a new author who the agent / publisher believes has enough talent to shine through. But even they get heavily marketed.

It’s the same in the film industry too, like no one needs a Minions 5 film, do they? Hollywood is worse in many ways because they just rehash the shizz out of stuff that already has become a franchise. I don’t feel like we’ll ever get another Peter Jackson style LoTR film series. The sheer amount of creativity and research and work that went into that is insane. Hollywood don’t seem o want to be brave anymore.

In self publishing (which is super easy to do nowadays) I think you inevitably find a LOT of authors who have been rejected by querying processes. And a lot of mediocre to bad writing, but the work itself might have more originality of thought.

 

[The Dark One]

In self publishing (which is super easy to do nowadays) I think you inevitably find a LOT of authors who have been rejected by querying processes. And a lot of mediocre to bad writing, but the work itself might have more originality of thought.

Originality isn't hard.

Being original and telling a coherent and compelling story is hard.

But even that won't get you a walk up start at any trade publisher. And it certainly won't find you an audience in the indie world without a shitload of marketing savvy and luck.

 

[Mad Swede]

Originality isn't hard.

Being original and telling a coherent and compelling story is hard.

But even that won't get you a walk up start at any trade publisher. And it certainly won't find you an audience in the indie world without a shitload of marketing savvy and luck.

Agreed. Originality is one thing, good story telling is quite another.

I was lucky, very lucky. It didn't take me 15 years to get accepted for publication, it took just under 14 months. And it was down to a commissioning editor who had a gut feeling that my first book would do reasonably well. There's no real science to that, just a sense that they liked the story and were prepared to take it on. Even then it took time to get the book into shape for publication, and that process taught me more about writing than I've learned before or since. It certainly improved me as a writer, and the editing of my later books has continued to improved my writing.

I think my message to any indie author would be to spend the time (and money) needed to get their work edited properly. I've learnt so much and my books have been so improved by my editor that, looking back, I realise that I couldn't have produced anything as good working solely by myself.

 

[Finchbearer]

When you say just over a year to get published, do you mean from the moment you thought of the story, wrote it AND queried it?

 

[Mad Swede]

When you say just over a year to get published, do you mean from the moment you thought of the story, wrote it AND queried it?

No. I'd already written the story (that took more than 14 months because of my dyslexia) and it took just under 14 months from the first query to acceptance. Then it was all about agreeing and signing the contract, after which the publishing process (editing etc) started. Note that this was/is in Sweden and we don't have agents here, you submit a complete work directly to the publishers.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

No. I'd already written the story (that took more than 14 months because of my dyslexia) and it took just under 14 months from the first query to acceptance. Then it was all about agreeing and signing the contract, after which the publishing process (editing etc) started. Note that this was/is in Sweden and we don't have agents here, you submit a complete work directly to the publishers.

And this is practically pushing the speed of light compared to how long traditional publishing took 30 years ago. (Yes, I was there. I turned Forever 49 two weeks ago.) Back then they had just started accepting no less than complete manuscripts for submission. Before that it was the first three chapters and the dreaded synopsis.

Light speed was release 2 years after acceptance. From submission to bookstore shelf could add another year, sometimes more. And heavens help you if there was any sort of problem.

 

[Mad Swede]

And this is practically pushing the speed of light compared to how long traditional publishing took 30 years ago. (Yes, I was there. I turned Forever 49 two weeks ago.) Back then they had just started accepting no less than complete manuscripts for submission. Before that it was the first three chapters and the dreaded synopsis.

Light speed was release 2 years after acceptance. From submission to bookstore shelf could add another year, sometimes more. And heavens help you if there was any sort of problem.

That first book of mine took a while to hit the shelves. Getting the contract sorted out took 6 weeks, finding an editor took 2 months. Then the developmental and structural editing started, and that took 9 months. After that there was cover design and line editing, followed by proof reading, all of which added another 5 months. Then it was time for printing and distribution, which took 2 months. Nearly 2 years in total. And then it was time for release!

Later books have gone a bit quicker (about 15 months from submission to release) but that's because I have the same publisher and I'm working with the same editor and cover designer. Building those relationships has made a huge difference to the whole process, which matters because the deadlines have got tighter as my books have become more popular and I have become seen as a more experienced author.

And in all this, please note that at the same time all this has been going on I've been working full time, looking after my family, doing interviews, attending book signings, answering messages from readers - and writing the other books and stories. Don't ever assume that being a published author is easy.