Character Motivation + Primary Goal

[FifthView]

You don't necessarily need 'ambition' per se. The Guardians of the Galaxy example is a good one to illustrate this with. He's going after the artifact; but that's just his job. I.e. he is in a stable condition, and he's simply maintaining that status quo and solving a problem within that status quo.

Mostly, in the comment you referenced, I meant to mention only my own tendency in choosing a primary MC, not necessarily trying to fit it within the "types" of approach I gave in the OP.

But with respect to status quo, I meant something more along the lines of routine. Harry Potter is going about his normal, routine life until he starts receiving those messages from Hogwarts and Hagrid shows up. Luke Skywalker is going about his normal farming life before his path intersects with R2-D2 and C-3PO. Paul Atreides has already had his routine interrupted with the order sending his family to Arrakis; but he's still in a "wait and see" mode because he doesn't know what to expect and nothing definite about that future has become apparent.

I think Peter Quill's situation is a little different because he's actively engaged in trying to cause a change to his life. If nothing else, collecting that artifact will lead to a big payoff that will boost his finances. Plus we learn fairly soon that he's broken off from working with Yondu and the Ravagers, so there's a sense that he's already left a routine life he'd had before, is trying to change it. He's set off on his own course.

I think that characters involved in routine activities can also be said to be already doing things. Harry's already going to school. Luke is already doing the normal activities of farming. Paul Atreides is already studying, training. But I think Quill's situation is a little different—more high risk, with the assumption also that there is a bigger payoff. This also leads to the sense that he's already striving to make big changes in his life.

I think a good way to start with a character like that (i.e. who is happy with the status quo) is to show them working on a problem or goal within the framework of their current status quo. That way, they're protagging without needing them to be ambitious and wanting out of the status quo. And you can therefore hold back on the main plot without making the story boring.

I agree, although I think that in cases like Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, we can't say they are incredibly happy with the status quo. They're basically going through the motions. Within that humdrum existence, there can be some rudimentary problems to be solved or at least provocations requiring a reaction. I remember that early scene from Dune in which Paul is learning how to fight a force shield-wearer with a knife; or, his reaction to the test given by the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother. Harry Potter deals with his cousin. Luke Skywalker has to deal with the new androids showing up while making various repairs to things I think.

And now, looking back at your post about it on the previous page; your character is already pursuing a goal within his status quo. Freeing the woman as a favour to the regional sovereign. Ergo, if he's trying to do this favour to the sovereign and someone tries to stop him, and he pushes through anyway, and you have your 'ambition' without him having to want to change his status quo.

I see his situation being like Paul Atreides' in a way. He's lived a fairly routine life of ease, but this request from his regional sovereign begins a cascade of events simply by placing him in a new, uncertain situation. (He's never been to the imperial city before and has some reason for having avoided it, since most newbies to that caste are expected to appear before the emperor and register themselves but he and his two wards never have.)

Also, the Bride and Peter's starts aren't the same. The Bride starts off with the main plot goal in mind (revenge), while Peter starts off with an unrelated (well, later related, but he doesn't know that) goal, and then something goes wrong and he's thrown into the main plot (and at some point decides to act instead of reacting).

They are two different starts.

I've been wondering if Peter Quill follows that #3 approach: Come What May. He's engaged in a self-directed, active, protagging effort but that effort intersects with some other force that leads him down the story's path.

I'd said before that the three methods might overlap a little, and I wonder if this is a case of that. Even with the Dune method, something intersects with the routine life, upsetting that life or breaking the routine. But as far as character starts go, I do think Quill is something different than a Potter or Skywalker, even if he's not a Bride.

 

[Heliotrope]

I think scarlet Ohara fits this role as well. Her life is pretty good at the beginning. All she wants is to marry Ashley Wilkes, but she assumes that is under control... Until it isn't...

Though she is very proactive I guess, even in pursuing that goal...

 

[Penpilot]

I think characters who start out and who seem to want nothing really do want something. They want things to remain the same. Then something upsets the apple cart and their goals shift to returning things back to the way they were or something else. Doesn't Scarlett just want things to go back to before the war? Been a while since I've seen that movie so I could be very wrong.

 

[Heliotrope]

Yes. ^^^ exactly right.

 

[La Volpe]

But with respect to status quo, I meant something more along the lines of routine. Harry Potter is going about his normal, routine life until he starts receiving those messages from Hogwarts and Hagrid shows up. Luke Skywalker is going about his normal farming life before his path intersects with R2-D2 and C-3PO. Paul Atreides has already had his routine interrupted with the order sending his family to Arrakis; but he's still in a "wait and see" mode because he doesn't know what to expect and nothing definite about that future has become apparent.

I think Peter Quill's situation is a little different because he's actively engaged in trying to cause a change to his life. If nothing else, collecting that artifact will lead to a big payoff that will boost his finances. Plus we learn fairly soon that he's broken off from working with Yondu and the Ravagers, so there's a sense that he's already left a routine life he'd had before, is trying to change it. He's set off on his own course.

I think that characters involved in routine activities can also be said to be already doing things. Harry's already going to school. Luke is already doing the normal activities of farming. Paul Atreides is already studying, training. But I think Quill's situation is a little different–more high risk, with the assumption also that there is a bigger payoff. This also leads to the sense that he's already striving to make big changes in his life.

Good point, I agree. Harry, Luke and Paul are definitely more passive. Quill is doing a more proactive kind of task.

One thing I'll note though; it seems to me that the Harrys (Harries?), Lukes and Pauls (starting in 'passive' roles) are characters who start as unskilled (though inherently talented) and transforms into a strong hero. While the Brides and Quills start off as badass. All the examples I can think of seem to follow this pattern.

I agree, although I think that in cases like Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, we can't say they are incredibly happy with the status quo. They're basically going through the motions.

That's true. Quill seems to be quite content with his status quo, while the other two aren't (even though Luke is reluctant to join old Ben Kenobi on a space trip).

I see his situation being like Paul Atreides' in a way. He's lived a fairly routine life of ease, but this request from his regional sovereign begins a cascade of events simply by placing him in a new, uncertain situation. (He's never been to the imperial city before and has some reason for having avoided it, since most newbies to that caste are expected to appear before the emperor and register themselves but he and his two wards never have.)

I agree. He's being put in a new situation (without a real choice, I'm assuming?) so he's reacting to the situation, rather than pursuing a specific goal like Quill or the Bride.

I've been wondering if Peter Quill follows that #3 approach: Come What May. He's engaged in a self-directed, active, protagging effort but that effort intersects with some other force that leads him down the story's path.

I'd said before that the three methods might overlap a little, and I wonder if this is a case of that. Even with the Dune method, something intersects with the routine life, upsetting that life or breaking the routine. But as far as character starts go, I do think Quill is something different than a Potter or Skywalker, even if he's not a Bride.

I think they do overlap, and probably often. And I bet we'd be able to come up with more types if we tried.

So I did originally see elements of the type Paul and Luke fall into, but you're right. Quill's start does seem to be somewhat different.

 

[FatCat]

God forbid the heroe overcomes common belief to re-establish the norm.

 

[idknull]

I always saw the motivation as the coal to the goal's fire. The more motivated he is, the greater the determination of accomplishing the goal.

 

[Helen]

the Pixar story format

Don't know if you've seen this, but an analysis of it: http://www.bugaj.com/s/Pixar22RulesAnalyzed_Bugaj.pdf