ChatGPT For World Building?

[_Michael_]

Yeah, except that to figure out a trojan configuration in a 4:1 resonance for two moons stuck in Lagrangian points would have taken months on my own to put together where I could ask ChatGPT conversationally and it produces usable results in minutes. Doing that on my own would have likely been beyond my ability to figure. Most astronomers are too busy to have answer questions and have a conversation about world building. ChatGPT makes a conversational query a lot easier to parse.

 

[Karlin]

Not ideal!

When I think of things like ChatGPT I do consider that before many people would rely on Google, and before that? Libraries and books…before that? I don’t think we can call ourselves completely original in our thinking. As long as ChatGPT remains the poorly conceived sounding board that it is it can’t compete with anything that has come before it.

There are many different sets of three prime numbers that can be added together to make a prime number. Here are a few examples:

3 + 5 + 7 = 15

3 + 11 + 17 = 31

5 + 7 + 11 = 23

5 + 17 + 19 = 41

 

[Finchbearer]

There are many different sets of three prime numbers that can be added together to make a prime number. Here are a few examples:

3 + 5 + 7 = 15

3 + 11 + 17 = 31

5 + 7 + 11 = 23

5 + 17 + 19 = 41

…great to know.

 

[_Michael_]

I think I lost the thread...so...the ability to add prime numbers into prime numbers is indicative of effective AI? I mean, the math is straight-forward, so it's not that hard to "fact check" numbers. I did on Reddit and got all those armchair astronomer assholes telling me it was wrong and all the ways it was wrong, when I had asked to find ways to make it right. As far as I can tell, the planetary diameters and lunar diameters and distances all check out for a co-planar trojan configuration.

I mean, ChatGPT is prone to fudging but so long as you're willing to belabor the point, you can usually badger it into giving you usuable answers. Then again, I definitely hit a point where I was asking myself if I really needed this much planetary data for a fantasy world set up. lol Eventually, it became diminishing returns, and so I stopped trying to continually perfect it as it is highly unlikely a player will ever need to know the exact distance between the two sister planets in the goldilocks zone or the exact distance between the planet and the parent star. Yes, a lot of information can be extracted from ChatGPT with patience and repetition and stringent double-checking. Do you really need to get down to that fine of a level of detail, though? I was happy with what it provided up to now. While the temptation is always there to include way more data, I realized that's just me showing off and doesn't really do much to add enjoyment to the world.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Yeah, except that to figure out a trojan configuration in a 4:1 resonance for two moons stuck in Lagrangian points would have taken months on my own to put together where I could ask ChatGPT conversationally and it produces usable results in minutes. Doing that on my own would have likely been beyond my ability to figure. Most astronomers are too busy to have answer questions and have a conversation about world building. ChatGPT makes a conversational query a lot easier to parse.

Poking my nose back in for a brief derailment: both of the bolded? Not true. Easy assumptions to make, but not true.

You are absolutely capable of finding this information on your own. I've been at this for decades and I have a truly incredible amount of random crap stuffed in my head. Can I remember my own name? Not usually. Can I tell you all about special operations in Medieval warfare? Not only can I, but I can also back it up with primary and secondary sources. Writers do homework for a living... and then we die. That's it. I have encountered some authors, even big-name authors, who don't do their homework and it gets screamingly obvious really fast. You have the entire collected knowledge of the human race at your fingertips, along with many, many cats. And there are also books. So many books. And those books and a writer's voracious curiosity gave me the ability to understand what you're talking about with your two moons. How?

I did my homework.

Second, as you progress, you are going to discover that there are not many doors that a polite, "Good day! I am an author working on a new book, and I am hoping I can borrow a few minutes of your time, if you're available," won't open. Most people are not only delighted to have been hand-picked by a "real author" to call on, they usually have a ball answering questions. No one hates talking about their passion, and no one hates talking about their area of knowledge. I know we're introverts, and making calls or sending emails to strangers is severely anxiety-inducing, but when you've exhausted your research options and need help, they're there. Hunt down the authors of the most useful books you've found on the subject. They will either help you themselves or they know someone who can.

Note bene: When you do call a source, keep your questions specific. No, "I want moons. How does it work?" That's basically the entirety of astrophysics. But, after doing the research and finding where your knowledge gaps are and what is crucial to your plot points, you should be able to narrow down your questions. They want to talk to you, but no one wants their time wasted and they will all be more open to help if they see you've already done the ground work.

 

[Finchbearer]

How complex would you want to make your book though? I mean what reading level? I think for books that are going to reach a wider audience you are looking at ‘high school level’ - which is probably most published fiction these days. I am no snob, if a book is good then it’s good, but fill a book with complicated language, unless I happen to be knowledgable in that area I might take a pass - unless its a classic that I want to read that might be deemed harder to read, or ‘college level’. Iy really depends on the target audience. Say if you’re aiming at theoretical physicists, then you’re good to go.

 

[pmmg]

Its actually a well known fact that when two planetary objects are sharing the same goldilocks zone, they must be exactly the sum of a three prime numbers added together apart. The greater the diameters, the larger the prime numbers used. And in co-planar Trojan situations, one of the two should have a large bronze shield to be deflect asteroids for the other. ChatGPT says so, I looked it up.

But, since i cant do math, I am willing to fudge it.

 

[Finchbearer]

So I posed your question to ChatGPT and this is what it would sound like if it was 90’s style rap:

‘figure out a trojan configuration in a 4:1 resonance for two moons stuck in Lagrangian points’ - but explain this in 90’s rhyming rap.

Yo, peep this, it's about moons in space, Chillin' at Lagrange, they got their place, Two moons in sync, makin' moves so neat, Rollin' 4:1, in a celestial beat.

Lagrange points, where they hang, no fuss, Trojan style, keepin' up, that's a plus, Stuck in resonance, that's their groove, Space-time dance, nothin' to prove.

One leads, four follow, that's their game, Doin' their orbits, never soundin' the same, Locked in rhythm, it's a cosmic show, Two moons jivin', in a 4:1 flow.

Trojans chillin', in their space spot, Rappin' to the universe, they sure got the slot, Lagrange's crew, keepin' it tight, Two moons in sync, in the cosmic night.

 

[pmmg]

'Yo, peep this' is going to be my new greeting.

That's not bad actually. Maybe epic rap battles has some competition.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Research for fiction, not actual science.

Your boss seems to be a twit.

Nooooo! my boss uses it for science things, and it write vague things at best, and sometimes things that are completely wrong. So you have to check everything. Better off using normal search tools.

By the way, it is extremely annoying to have your boss ask ChatGPT for technical information, when he has a bunch of engineers and scientists (including PhD's) working for him.

 

[_Michael_]

I have no problem asking. I've asked on Reddit and other platforms, and the answer usually involves some variation of, "Your question is too complicated for us to bother answering," or "What you want is impossible; therefore, I'm not going to tell you how to shape it to make it feasible."

Figuring out the planetary system requires a lot of back and forth that can't be relayed in a single email or PM. That's where AI's ability to hash things out conversationally is exceptional, although it's always with the caveat that you have to double check everything. ChatGPT's ability to calculate the numbers on the fly is advantageous in that I can simply ask for what I'd like, and the AI tells me all the ways it's possible, or how to make what I want possible and still fit within an acceptable physics framework. This is where it shines--I don't have to know the math to adjust variables on the fly. One moon has to be smaller than the other, for instance, but only to a certain degree and only in consideration of gravitational parameters of the parent planet. Adjust the diameter of one moon, the other has to be adjusted and the mass of the parent planet has to be adjusted.

All of it to generate a stable 438 day year in which I don't have to have weird adjustments at odd intervals. My calendar has a single day at the end of each month and three at the end of each year. Otherwise, there's no significant variation to complicate things. It's already complicated coming up with a mythos that involves two moons that don't appear in together in the sky except in the tropic latitudes.

That's to say nothing of the Veil--the asteroid belt that is stretched into a long oval so that both planets (Erdeyn and Aeos) pass through it twice a year. I was originally going to make the planet a moon of a gas giant, but omg, does that complicate astronomical movements and calendrical cycles.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I have no problem asking. I've asked on Reddit and other platforms, and the answer usually involves some variation of, "Your question is too complicated for us to bother answering," or "What you want is impossible; therefore, I'm not going to tell you how to shape it to make it feasible."

Okay, here's where the wheels come off the wagon. You don't want to send scattershot questions into the void. You will never get an answer from anyone because it makes it look to someone in the field that you want them to do your homework for you, and the ones who do comment have no idea what they are talking about, they just like seeing their names in the chat. So, no, don't do that. A forum like Scribes is better, but even then you really need to show investment in the community before you will see the experts come out of the woodwork.

What you're going to learn to do is specialist stalk. Do your internet searches, and when you do make sure you scroll down to the bottom to look for the citations. If there aren't any, immediately put that article into a tread-carefully folder and only use that information if you can find proof it's the truth. What you want to find are who's writing the articles and books that everyone else is citing. It's a bit... well, it's a lot incestuous, but academia always has been. Everyone cites everyone else's work. But! when you find those citation circles, you're looking at the specialists who know the information you need.

The key here is making direct contact. It's flattering because it's proof you went the extra mile to get your story right, to want to be professional and make a good impression, and that's important to pedantic jerks like me. Email, phone, whatever. Most are attached to one university or another, so you can get that information from college catalogues. And never approach a source at home unless invited to. It's creepy.

 

[_Michael_]

For sure. I'm not asking generalized questions, though. I'm pretty specific in what I'm looking for, and all I got on Reddit was a bruised ego from being laughed at by a bunch of 4chan rejects who tried to make it seem like they knew something, but wouldn't actually answer any questions. This is a much better forum so far, and I've gotten much better answers just in the few weeks I've been here. Just like my version of the Underdark and the Drow, I want to make mine distinct to stand on it's own, but just vaguely familiar enough for people to know where I drew my inspiration...and then pushed it in new directions.

ChatGPT, I think, is just the seed generator to generate the vague outlines and bare bones of concepts that then get filled in by actual creative efforts and research. Plus, it can provide a lot of the terms that I can use to then search out for further research. I absolutely do not want my homework done for me, but some of the formulae for figuring things like oribital velocities and distances, and angular momentum...ooof. It gets real complicated, real fast. lol Far above my pay grade. So long as it can pass muster with whoever reads it later on without falling apart due to logical inconsistencies, then I'm happy. Most people aren't going to even know what a trojan configuration is. lol But it's absolutely essential for establishing a stable calendar, and there's some room for fudging a bit as no one is going to whip out a Texas Instruments calculator and start going over Lagrangian points. Thank God. lol It's already complicated enough!

 

[Prince of Spires]

One thing I've found ChatGPT good for is light conlang-ing. Maybe not for making up a whole language, but It's great for throwing ideas at you if you want two or three cities with names inspired by language X. Or people's names. Or items. The sort of background stuff that adds a lot of flavor to a setting, but can take up way too much time if you suck at making languages.

 

[_Michael_]

Oooh, yeah, I've used that, too. I'll give it a base language, like Croatian, for instance, and ask it to come up with names that are vaguely similar to that base language. Akula is "shark" in Croatian, and I used that to create an Akula-class catamaran-style brigantine. The languages use is a great aspect to ChatGPT.

 

[Yel]

Hm, I should try stimulate a suggestion for fantasy on chatgpt too. Even though it might only just give rough outline, tleast Im starting somewhere, somehow

 

[_Michael_]

Hm, I should try stimulate a suggestion for fantasy on chatgpt too. Even though it might only just give rough outline, tleast Im starting somewhere, somehow

It's like the friend you can bounce ideas off of without that friend getting tired of hearing about your ideas. lol

 

[Yel]

It's like the friend you can bounce ideas off of without that friend getting tired of hearing about your ideas. lol

Hahahaa
What else can it do, besides writing fantasy

 

[pmmg]

Nothing I want.

 

[Michael-Kaye]

How complex would you want to make your book though? I mean what reading level? I think for books that are going to reach a wider audience you are looking at ‘high school level’ - which is probably most published fiction these days. I am no snob, if a book is good then it’s good, but fill a book with complicated language, unless I happen to be knowledgable in that area I might take a pass - unless its a classic that I want to read that might be deemed harder to read, or ‘college level’. Iy really depends on the target audience. Say if you’re aiming at theoretical physicists, then you’re good to go.

I think it is actually lower than what High School reading comprehension levels (or at least what was the comprehensive level of when I graduated in 1990 versus what ever it is at today).... I mean it seems like if you grab almost any new fiction novel written in the past 5 years and compare it to say something written 5 decades ago - 6like Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey or drop back another 3 decades to JRR Tolkien's Rings trilogy... but I agree 100% with you, that no matter what you are writing, you need to write in a way that is targeted for your largest audience, especially if your wanting to sell your works and becoming the next George R. R. Martin or a Robert Jordan...