Colorful "normal" characters?

[Super Fantasy]

Make your characters more colorful in many ways.
Your character could have a colorful personality.
Say someone had a character with these traits:

Social - The character is very social, good with linguistic relations to other characters.
Add some more social values:
The character knows how to lead a team with social relations.
The character knows how to teach others how to use tools or weapons.
The character knows how to speak to those who are royal properly.

A skilled explorer - The character knows many shortcuts and alleyway inside of the city and is good with maps.
Add some more skills of the explorer values:
The character is good at exploring at night.
The character is good at basic combat with daggers and bows.
The character is good at thieving and escaping guards in the night.


A skilled merchant - The character is very knowledgeable with currencies and prices of wares.
Add some more skills of the merchant:
The merchant is good with spending, often finding good deals on prices of equipment.
The merchant is good when selling things, often earning a fair price.
The merchant is good at pricing gemstones and rare currencies.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Harry Potter was also written for children. You could say the same thing about the main character in How To Train Your Dragon or Diary Of A Wimpy Kid.

If that's what you're going for, rock on. Let's just make sure the target audience is 9-13 years old.

It's definitely more common in children's and YA novels. One counterpoint is though that plenty of adults read and enjoy HP, showing it's not something that prevents adults from enjoying the books.

Also, there are aldult novels with a reader-insert character. From what I gather (though I haven't read it), the main character from 50 shades of Grey is one such character. And you can say what you want about the writing of it, but there's no denying the success it's had.

 

[Incanus]

I haven't put much thought into 'insert characters', and don't know much about it.

Does 'relatable' mean 'insert character'?

My book might sort of be 'all ages', but has adults in mind (except it doesn't obsess over sex like so many seem to). It will be for fans of epic fantasy, of any age.

 

[Jackarandajam]

I haven't put much thought into 'insert characters', and don't know much about it.

Does 'relatable' mean 'insert character'?

My book might sort of be 'all ages', but has adults in mind (except it doesn't obsess over sex like so many seem to). It will be for fans of epic fantasy, of any age.

It's a little difficult to pinpoint. The idea is to make the main character vague enough that a reader can easily substitute themselves into the role.

Most of the time the main character is an average Joe or Jane starting with no particularly fine looks, skill or ability, or maybe a skill that is very relatable, like playing video games or dealing with a younger sibling. (NOTE: If the book is an author insert instead of a reader insert, often the MC will be obsessed with whatever niche subject the author is, such as cars of a certain era or guns. The other characters are usually very impressed by this, if not immediately they are taught to be when the obscure knowledge becomes pivotal at some point and the MC saves the day).

They bring mostly general likeability and problem solving skills to the table, and the characters around them are generally impressed and supportive, even if not immediately.

Typically the character doesn't make very many poor choices (they always do the reasonable thing "that you would have done"), and most of their arc involves overcoming the plot, learning about the story world, and making cool friends.

Ready Player One was a good example of this.
Harry Potter could also be an example, since although details are given about his appearance, circumstances and journey, he has very few defining characteristics in his personality or preferences.

 

[Incanus]

Thanks, Jack--that sounds like a pretty good working definition to go on.

I'd say my three POV characters currently display roughly half of these traits. There is an aspect of my setting that make some of these considerations non-issues, or turn them on their heads.

Overall, this issue has faded a little for me. I think the characters are mostly working like they should. Further drafting and revision (and, eventually, feedback), should take care of the rest.

 

[Incanus]

Make your characters more colorful in many ways.
Your character could have a colorful personality.
Say someone had a character with these traits:

Social - The character is very social, good with linguistic relations to other characters.
Add some more social values:
The character knows how to lead a team with social relations.
The character knows how to teach others how to use tools or weapons.
The character knows how to speak to those who are royal properly.

A skilled explorer - The character knows many shortcuts and alleyway inside of the city and is good with maps.
Add some more skills of the explorer values:
The character is good at exploring at night.
The character is good at basic combat with daggers and bows.
The character is good at thieving and escaping guards in the night.


A skilled merchant - The character is very knowledgeable with currencies and prices of wares.
Add some more skills of the merchant:
The merchant is good with spending, often finding good deals on prices of equipment.
The merchant is good when selling things, often earning a fair price.
The merchant is good at pricing gemstones and rare currencies.

Thanks for the prompts, Super---

On the one hand, my main characters have something like what you have suggested here: some specific skills and natural abilities.

But on the other hand, my setting precludes much of this.

My story takes place about a generation after an event that caused 95-98% of the population to die off in a short period. Thus, there is no more royalty, little social structure, loss of highly-skilled crafts, not much of an economy, etc. In short: the story is a post-apocalyptic high fantasy.

This is, in a sense, why pretty much all the characters are 'average' rather than super-specialized, or otherwise elite. Those concepts don't really apply anymore. But the new situation arising in the story makes several people 'rise to the challenge'.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Thanks for the prompts, Super---

On the one hand, my main characters have something like what you have suggested here: some specific skills and natural abilities.

But on the other hand, my setting precludes much of this.

My story takes place about a generation after an event that caused 95-98% of the population to die off in a short period. Thus, there is no more royalty, little social structure, loss of highly-skilled crafts, not much of an economy, etc. In short: the story is a post-apocalyptic high fantasy.

This is, in a sense, why pretty much all the characters are 'average' rather than super-specialized, or otherwise elite. Those concepts don't really apply anymore. But the new situation arising in the story makes several people 'rise to the challenge'.

That sounds like a really cool premise!

 

[Prince of Spires]

That does sound like an interesting premisse indeed.

This is, in a sense, why pretty much all the characters are 'average' rather than super-specialized, or otherwise elite. Those concepts don't really apply anymore. But the new situation arising in the story makes several people 'rise to the challenge'.

There's a bit a difference between what people are and who they are. Someone can be just an average farm-hand, but he can also be an asshole who swears at everyone who walks past. Or a bee-keeper who would sell his own mother. Or an inn-keeper who doesn't actually like being around people. Or any of the other things.

For instance, to go back to Harry Potter, you can say that Hermione is the smart kid, and Ron is the loyal, if slightly dense, side-kick who is a pretty good problem solver when it comes down to it. Harry Potter doesn't have very defining traits, other than average hero points. He's loyal and keeps going. But that's pretty much it. People mainly seem to follow him because he's Harry Potter and he keeps on not dying.

While there isn't much wrong with people simply rising to the challenge, it does make for a stronger story if the people have a reason to rise. In general people like staying alive and don't purposefully put themselves in harms way. They tend to need a reason to become heroic.

 

[Jackarandajam]

There's a bit a difference between what people are and who they are. Someone can be just an average farm-hand, but he can also be an asshole who swears at everyone who walks past. Or a bee-keeper who would sell his own mother. Or an inn-keeper who doesn't actually like being around people. Or any of the other things.

This.
My personal opinion is not high of reader avatar characters.
It may be something like a new genre, a response to adult cultures increased desire to comfortably slip into casual escapism for a while, or maybe novels that appeal in more of the way video games do, so I hesitate to dismiss it as bad or lazy writing, but I think it's unnecessary.

My son has no qualms being batman or Spiderman whenever he wants to, despite their very specific personalities and backstories that have developed over the decades. He's 8.

Personal struggle: I find MCs somewhat difficult and intimidating to write, mostly because the story usually comes to me first sans main character, so I find myself sort of reverse engineering them into the plot. It makes motivation extremely hard to develop, and alot of writing advice would say to scrap a story that isn't initially MC-centric for this reason. Any hint that the MC is being forced into the story is a death knell for readers. Preferably, The plot and supporting cast should evolve from the internal and external needs of the mc.
So I suffer from a sort of Charles Dickens Syndrome, where my main character is more of a helpless victim of the plot carried along on a wave of side characters interacting with each other.
Charles Dickens did just fine for himself, but that was a long time ago, and besides, I feel personally challenged by my own propensity otherwise to develop deep, interesting MCs.

Anyway, like I said, I'm perfectly open to considering the possibility that reader avatar is a new developing thing, but there is no evidence that it's necessary or useful or something readers actually want.

 

[Finchbearer]

And there was me thinking that a self insert character was the author writing themselves as the MC, a bit like a Mary Sue, but not quite as self gratifying.

 

[Jackarandajam]

And there was me thinking that a self insert character was the author writing themselves as the MC, a bit like a Mary Sue, but not quite as self gratifying.

Yep! You're exactly right. A self/author insert is that.
A reader insert is more like a dotted outline of the authors conception of an average human, with an X and "You are here" written on the face.

 

[pmmg]

I guess when it comes to the more relatable characters, I'll just have to do it the long, slow, hard way--through rough drafts and discovery writing, revisions, and polishing. It may be a matter of some characters 'showing up' more swiftly than others.

I think this is the truth of it here. You have to write them for a while and let them kind of organically form, then make they clearer images of themselves in the rewrite. After its done, you should have a pretty good idea of who they are and what makes them different.

 

[Incanus]

Hey Jackarandajam--sounds like we start our story ideas from a similar place.

Far more often than not, I start with a story concept, or in the case of my current novel, the setting. I came up with the main idea 13 years ago now, I think. Back then, I got some worldbuilding in, and came up with some characters, but got stuck on how the plot should go.

Eventually I realized I just didn't have the chops to tell this story as it deserved. Did other projects for years, trying to improve.

It was a week or two after faring well in a big story contest (I placed rather high, but didn't win) that I realized maybe I'd improved enough to get back to the original project.

The work that has happened since seems to suggest that I have improved enough. My project is humming along nicely (if slowly).

I've got a good MC goal/arc, and something new that threatens that goal. The other POV characters shed sidelights on the main character, and all show different aspects of the theme.

 

[Incanus]

I think this is the truth of it here. You have to write them for a while and let them kind of organically form, then make they clearer images of themselves in the rewrite. After its done, you should have a pretty good idea of who they are and what makes them different.

I think this is the way forward for me as well.

I have a once-a-week phone meeting with my best writer friend. I used to tell her that the reason I thought my characters weren't all that great on the page was due to some lack of insight on my part. That I'm not a 'people person'.

For years she has been telling me that it is a writing problem, not an insight problem. She said I could learn how to do it better, like any writing skill.

I have been coming around to her point of view on this lately. In fact, I'm more or less sold on it now.

One thing is certain--I'm exceptionally lucky to have such a fantastic and reliable writing friend. If you don't have one, find one. If you have one, do your best to hold on to them.

 

[pmmg]

Well....just my own experience, but I have a number of characters who don't speak to me at first, but I write them anyway, and it does happen, they come around and show me who they are.

Right now, I have several that are developing this way. One is a junior priest I thought I would write out of the story cause I had no use for them. Another is a child character who I am trying to get right age-wise. And yet another is one of the MC of the story...he started off pretty blah, but now I think I have him.

All of these are going to get polished up a lot in the rewrite.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Hey Jackarandajam--sounds like we start our story ideas from a similar place.

Far more often than not, I start with a story concept, or in the case of my current novel, the setting. I came up with the main idea 13 years ago now, I think. Back then, I got some worldbuilding in, and came up with some characters, but got stuck on how the plot should go.

Eventually I realized I just didn't have the chops to tell this story as it deserved. Did other projects for years, trying to improve.

It was a week or two after faring well in a big story contest (I placed rather high, but didn't win) that I realized maybe I'd improved enough to get back to the original project.

The work that has happened since seems to suggest that I have improved enough. My project is humming along nicely (if slowly).

I've got a good MC goal/arc, and something new that threatens that goal. The other POV characters shed sidelights on the main character, and all show different aspects of the theme.

Exactly what I'm working on fleshing out in my WIP!

1. Something I want to say (Theme),
2. How I want to prove it is true (Plot),
3. Who I want to learn it (Protagonist),
4. Who I want to explain it (Side Characters)

Thats a long shot from the "cool scene" I had in my head ten years ago, but man I've learned some stuff along the way.

 

[Incanus]

Well....just my own experience, but I have a number of characters who don't speak to me at first, but I write them anyway, and it does happen, they come around and show me who they are.

Right now, I have several that are developing this way. One is a junior priest I thought I would write out of the story cause I had no use for them. Another is a child character who I am trying to get right age-wise. And yet another is one of the MC of the story...he started off pretty blah, but now I think I have him.

All of these are going to get polished up a lot in the rewrite.

This process sure looks mighty familiar. My cast has been something of a moving target for awhile, but I think I'm pretty close now.

Of my original cast, one character was cut, another changed gender. Two others I did a fair amount of development on, only to have them not show up very much in the story so far.

And then--more people showed up recently in the story, more characters were needed. I have some fresh faces to work on.

 

[Incanus]

Exactly what I'm working on fleshing out in my WIP!

1. Something I want to say (Theme),
2. How I want to prove it is true (Plot),
3. Who I want to learn it (Protagonist),
4. Who I want to explain it (Side Characters)

Thats a long shot from the "cool scene" I had in my head ten years ago, but man I've learned some stuff along the way.

You folks keep saying interesting things that I just can't ignore.

It's one thing to see this laid out like you have it, it is another to have learned it the hard way. Having solid ideas that interact with each other in a positive way is the way to go, if you can arrange it.

Your last point reminds me of a difficult lesson I learned. I would think of a super-duper neato story idea, develop it somewhat, and then begin writing it, hoping the rest would fall into place. I occasionally got lucky and came up with a decent short, but many didn't work so well. At one point I had the grandaddy of all great ideas for a short. I worked on it with glee--for the first half or so. It started getting tough. I finished it, and it turned out pretty 'blah'.

My confidence tanked after that. If my super idea yielded a kind of crummy story, then I must not know what I'm doing, so I thought. I had no idea where I went wrong.

Neat ideas are great for getting the ball rolling, but you have to work toward a complete picture. I relied on the 'neato' idea to see me through a project, but it's not enough on its own. Seems kind of obvious now, but I had to learn the long, hard way.

 

[Jackarandajam]

You folks keep saying interesting things that I just can't ignore.

It's one thing to see this laid out like you have it, it is another to have learned it the hard way. Having solid ideas that interact with each other in a positive way is the way to go, if you can arrange it.

Your last point reminds me of a difficult lesson I learned. I would think of a super-duper neato story idea, develop it somewhat, and then begin writing it, hoping the rest would fall into place. I occasionally got lucky and came up with a decent short, but many didn't work so well. At one point I had the grandaddy of all great ideas for a short. I worked on it with glee--for the first half or so. It started getting tough. I finished it, and it turned out pretty 'blah'.

My confidence tanked after that. If my super idea yielded a kind of crummy story, then I must not know what I'm doing, so I thought. I had no idea where I went wrong.

Neat ideas are great for getting the ball rolling, but you have to work toward a complete picture. I relied on the 'neato' idea to see me through a project, but it's not enough on its own. Seems kind of obvious now, but I had to learn the long, hard way.

I should probably add:

5. Who I want to show doing it wrong (antagonist)

 

[Finchbearer]

2. How I want to prove it is true (Plot),

I am not sure I understand the obsession with finding so-called ‘truth’. It seems to be something a lot of people search for, whilst I spend I lot of my time circling around it to find more interesting things…

How do I explain this? I leave a lot of room for unexplained things, unresolved end points and have my characters living rather than always ‘searching’. Whether that’s right or not I don’t know, but the concept of ‘truth’ has never really appealed to me.