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Cover desperately needs advice

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
here's the image. And the cover doesn't wrap around the spine, it'll be a solid color and the back and front images separated by it.
Wircoverpic.jpg
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So... I imagine the front cover will have better font, I just picked something but now it looks like a YA book font. My name will be at the bottom. Also... I put two blocks on the back cover, but I'm not sure I would use one for an author bio... so I just duplicated the text. Probably fill in more blurb on the bottom one. More about the story. And anyways, on a book cover, I'd probably want a smaller text. These are the details I haven't really played with, spending my small amount of time on writing and painting the last couple weeks.

I think I'll do away with the sword since it seems most people would prefer it. I liked your guys' interpretations without the sword better and I was even thinking myself... wouldn't it just be on his hip? but then it will be lost in the picture. I'll play with putting it there but I think the whole thing is better without it. Thanks!
 
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Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
you know... the really sucky thing about this thread, is that you all are seeing a tiny photo of a painting that's much bigger and isn't scanned or digitally done at all. That's literally the raw photo taken in my kitchen. The painting is 14"x20" and while a lot of that is being trimmed off in the process, it's hard to see the details right now without enlarging the photo on the screen. Sorry for that.

Okay, so that is the general idea, anyways. Blocks on the back, maybe one on the front too for the title? I guess today I'll erase the sword. The general consensus I read is that people find the sword detracting, right? Would it be easier to decide if you see an image of said proposed sword?
 

TWErvin2

Auror
While it's not 'required' in any way, author bios are usually on the inside of a novel. The extra space, like at the bottom on the back, would be commonly used for blurbs by other authors, reviewers/review sites, etc.

I am not sure why you would prefer a block, black with words on the inside, as opposed to lettering on the cover (title, subtitle--if there is one, and author. That is if I am interpreting 'block' correctly.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
If the man uses a sword even once in the book, then keep the sword. It'll be in a sheathe? You might think about moving it a touch closer to the figure.

The brightness/contrast/saturation needs to be played with, but your photoshop friends can handle that pretty easily.

The image seems a little too tall to me. That's not a comment about the dimensions but the balance of the image. As it stands, my eyes are being drawn immediately to the man's eyes, and it's not working. The man's eyes are in the middle-right-side of the image, and by comparison it's empty above him. I would try cutting a little off the top, and a sliver at the bottom, and put the title in a banner ontop of it. Having the title laid over the image isn't going to do enough to balance that out.

For the back, I wouldn't use a direct extension of the image. I would take the back picture, blur it a little, cut the window entirely, and lay the text in a box about where the window is. That way you would have matching colors framing the blurb. But the back window picture itself is a little busy and awkward, and is not compelling.


here's the image. And the cover doesn't wrap around the spine, it'll be a solid color and the back and front images separated by it.

I thought it was a good start before this point. The blurb, font and effects here aren't working.
 

e r i

Scribe
I second Devor that the font isn't really working, and that the image is cropped in an awkward way. You have three elements to the front cover, and they aren't really harmonising. The text (too much vertical space between the two lines IMO), the man, and the skull feature. They're placed at different corners of the cover, and I'm not too sure where to look at. I would very seriously consider changing the font, and the font placement.Written across the cover instead of squishing it in an available gap (which is what it looks like at the moment).

Could I download the image and digitally scribble on top of it to show you what you mean?

Also agree with Devor that the image is 'too tall'. The image crop doesn't align with
 
Hi,

Now that you've explained a little bit about the plot I would suggest losing the sword completely. It gives a somewhat misleading impression of what the book's about. My main thought would be the character's expression which strikes me as basically moody or glum. I think you want to show some sort of angst. As for the day of the dead image I'd suggest that given this is more about politics, church and justice maybe some sort of florentine statue of Justitia or else a religious icon.

Another thought did occur to me but I hesitate mentioning it as it would require a completely new piture. But as he's caught between two masters, why not represent that with him as is standing there with a church icon on one side looking down and maybe Justitia on the other looking down.

As for the font it doesn't work for me - and is it a mistake or is there some reason that the back cover has two black boxes. Personally since the back cover imagery is strong I'd tend to just write straight over it so the reader can both read what's written and see the picture.

Cheers, Greg.
 

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Well, the font was just something to throw in there. I mentioned that earlier, but I guess some folks missed that. I'm not going to create the actual thing, I'm just doing the painting. So... shades will change, cropping can be tried a few ways, the font will not be that one, and the back is still open. I just made the painting big enough to do a wrap around cover if needed and crop it into two separate images if that's better.

So really...while I agree with the comments about font and even cropping, I'm truly concerned about finishing the painting. Like... was the sword adding anything. I guess it isn't, since most people say it's too busy or the sword is a distraction or misleading. I guess my biggest concern was whether it needed to really match the character or whether the addition or absence of said blade was a big deal to a potential reader.

I posted a picture after it was requested, fully knowing it's a work still being painted. Then, when comments continued to be about, "how is this gonna work?" I posted a mock up (very rough) of something close to how I see it working, but nothing even nearing set. Please try to understand, I just want to finish my painting. I don't care what font is on there or whether the blurb box on the back is attractive, because those things are only there to show one potential option. It took me five minutes to throw those together to hopefully clarify the questions people were asking. I wanted to not waste their time in giving wordy answers when a picture would be easier. This is not a cover I plan to publish with the book. It is an image, a painting I am going to use to make a cover if it comes to self-publishing (in which case, there will only be a back cover if I make print books). Please help me determine whether the image (not necessarily those dimensions I selected for this test run) is appropriate. Does the sword attract the eye or does it detract from the figure? Is the image too cartoony? I'm actually thinking of cutting the right side of the image halfway through the window, So I'm not sure why I didn't do that on this image. It's honestly just a test because in my original post, I described the things I needed to and a photo was requested. For good reason! It's hard to develop an image in your mind if all you get to go on is a description. Who knows what images my description led to. It was probably not what the actual one is. So thank you very much for all the wonderful suggestions, but I'm feeling a little discouraged with the focus leading away from the motivation I need to finish the painting and heading more into the realm of why the fake test one isn't awesome. It isn't awesome because it's nothing but a general idea of how a 14"x20" painting can become a book cover. That was all this image was meant to convey, not a font I desired or even a solid concept of where to crop. Please help me finish the painting by letting me know what you think of the perspective, with or without the sword. It really helped me when people told me what the image conveyed to them. I've got five to seven hours left and then I'm hoping the image will be finished and really nice. But until then, this is what I have to work with and I apologize if my fake test example caused confusion. It is like a novel outline... nothing more. It will not be used in any way for a final example. Thank you!
 
Well, the font was just something to throw in there. I mentioned that earlier, but I guess some folks missed that. I'm not going to create the actual thing, I'm just doing the painting. So... shades will change, cropping can be tried a few ways, the font will not be that one, and the back is still open. I just made the painting big enough to do a wrap around cover if needed and crop it into two separate images if that's better.

So really...while I agree with the comments about font and even cropping, I'm truly concerned about finishing the painting. Like... was the sword adding anything. I guess it isn't, since most people say it's too busy or the sword is a distraction or misleading. I guess my biggest concern was whether it needed to really match the character or whether the addition or absence of said blade was a big deal to a potential reader.

I posted a picture after it was requested, fully knowing it's a work still being painted. Then, when comments continued to be about, "how is this gonna work?" I posted a mock up (very rough) of something close to how I see it working, but nothing even nearing set. Please try to understand, I just want to finish my painting. I don't care what font is on there or whether the blurb box on the back is attractive, because those things are only there to show one potential option. It took me five minutes to throw those together to hopefully clarify the questions people were asking. I wanted to not waste their time in giving wordy answers when a picture would be easier. This is not a cover I plan to publish with the book. It is an image, a painting I am going to use to make a cover if it comes to self-publishing (in which case, there will only be a back cover if I make print books). Please help me determine whether the image (not necessarily those dimensions I selected for this test run) is appropriate. Does the sword attract the eye or does it detract from the figure? Is the image too cartoony? I'm actually thinking of cutting the right side of the image halfway through the window, So I'm not sure why I didn't do that on this image. It's honestly just a test because in my original post, I described the things I needed to and a photo was requested. For good reason! It's hard to develop an image in your mind if all you get to go on is a description. Who knows what images my description led to. It was probably not what the actual one is. So thank you very much for all the wonderful suggestions, but I'm feeling a little discouraged with the focus leading away from the motivation I need to finish the painting and heading more into the realm of why the fake test one isn't awesome. It isn't awesome because it's nothing but a general idea of how a 14"x20" painting can become a book cover. That was all this image was meant to convey, not a font I desired or even a solid concept of where to crop. Please help me finish the painting by letting me know what you think of the perspective, with or without the sword. It really helped me when people told me what the image conveyed to them. I've got five to seven hours left and then I'm hoping the image will be finished and really nice. But until then, this is what I have to work with and I apologize if my fake test example caused confusion. It is like a novel outline... nothing more. It will not be used in any way for a final example. Thank you!


The work you have done is very nice, maybe it will work for what you want, maybe not. There is absolutely no need to feel poorly about it either way!

Don't change the concept simply because some people were unable to grasp the concept. At least not yet. Finish the painting, allow the photo fixers to have their way with it, sleep on it for a bit and then make a decision.
If nothing else you will have a wonderful print of the painting you worked so very hard on.
I wish I had one tenth the talent that you do!

I guess the question is, how do you feel about the sword? If you like it keep it, if not then ditch it.
 
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Ruby

Auror
Hi Caged Maiden, oh dear, that's the problem with asking people's opinions!

There's the famous saying: "You can't please everyone so you may as well please yourself," and also, "I know nothing about Art, but I know what I like!"

I like your painting a lot. When I first saw it in the early stages on Facebook I thought it had the "wow" factor (and still do!) Mind you, I projected onto the main character that he was some kind of romantic lead.:) But now I can see he has a troubled expression and the skulls on the walls also convey a disturbing message.

I actually don't think you should do much more to the painting. Venice is a crumbling, sinister sort of city. Remember the horror of Du Maurier's, "Don't Look Now", the book and the film. :eek:

I think the charm of the painting is in its pastel shades, the impressionistic quality of the brush strokes on the walls and the enigmatic central dark male figure.

Re: the question of the sword, why not put it on the back cover and/or inside on the title page? Or, even on the spine?

It's very easy for us creative people to get disheartened. We all have good and bad days when we review our artistic/literary creations.

You have to believe in yourself and your talent.
 
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Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
When curators in a museum hang a painting on the wall, they line up the middle of the painting with the height of the eyes of the average person entering the museum. If you take the painting you have and hang it on a wall, it'll look great, because the focus is in the middle, on the character's face, and that's exactly where it's supposed to be. Finish the image - it's a nice painting.

Cover art is a little different. Marketing principles are a little different than those of raw art. From a marketing perspective, we don't want someone to see the whole image at once. We want someone's eyes to quickly follow a specific path through the image, to convey a message that grows each step of the way. People's eyes want to move in a path that's similar to how we read. It's left-to-right, top-to-bottom, which translates to a path that looks something like a tilted Z. You want the focus of the elements on your cover, including the art and the titles and the author's name, to create an eye tracking pathway following those principles.

So for marketing, your painting as it is is too tall. The focus of the image doesn't follow a good path.

The thing is, that's also pretty fixable. So much so that I would do it for you if I could get any time on my desktop (bleh). It would be an easy matter of sliding the top part of the window down half an inch and recropping it for a different balance, plus tinkering with the colors. That's 5-10 minutes in photoshop. Alternative fixes are just as easy. Although as I said before, I would put the title in a banner on top, which is a little more work. Finding the right font is honestly the hardest part for someone who doesn't have experience with these things.

So finish the painting, and don't let a few details about laying out the cover discourage you from finishing your artwork.

Whatever happens it's not a waste of time and you should finish. I was reading the other day about a strategy for becoming a successful person, and the advice was to form an addiction to that sensation you feel when you finish something. Remember that feeling, embrace that feeling, and shoot for it.
 
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e r i

Scribe
Caged Maiden: Ah, ok. Your original post was about the presence/absence of the sword, but then there were some new comments instructions in later posts so I guess I got confused. My opinion still stands regarding the sword (it flags certain things, whether you want to communicate that or not is up to you), and my impression of the image is obviously still the same too. The painting is a fine piece, and you shouldn't feel discouraged at all! And I don't think you should ever think of it as a waste of time even if you don't end up using it as a cover. Finishing a painting is no mean feat. ;)
 

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Okay... So I'm gonna leave out the sword. I wasn't sure what it conveyed, but I want the cover (if I use this painting to self-publish) to let the reader know it's a sort of gritty, real book, not a typical (?) fantasy story with dragons and wizards. The main story happens all within this one city and the character in the image IS actually a romantic lead, but the story is so much more than love story... it's about characters' struggles and he's just the one in the middle of it all. Thanks for understanding I'm not a photoshopper. I'm just a writer who happens to have been a painter many years ago (like 15, haha). I have looked at a bunch of covers and while I enjoy digital art, I'm so much more fond of brush strokes because it's how I relate to feelings... through an artist's color choices and that little bit of them self they leave upon the page int he form of paint blobs.

I'm absolutely going to finish. I mean... what's five or so more hours of time? Right? I just wanted to make sure the sword either fit in or that if I took it out, I wasn't shooting myself in the foot by having a cover that was boring. I don't want the picture to look like a mediocre painted did it cheap and quick (though I am a mediocre artist and i did it quick and free... well for about $8... but you get the point).

I'm mostly concerned that it might appear sort of a YA impression like the Harry Potter covers or something. I want the art itself to have a certian sophistication whether that be more shading or whatever, to project a professional feel. Again, cropping aside because I won't be doing those things until the painting is finished. When I get it all finished, I'll put a final image up of just the painting and then I'll send it out for the final stages (scanning, cropping, editing, etc.). Actually, I hate the font. I just selected one I thought would be easy to read, but when it was on there, Blue Lotus copied the document image and now I can't change the font without starting over. Which... isn't time well spent at this point. :)

Thanks for the comments. Anything else you guys think about the image itself is always welcome. If I get to it, I might try the other painting (with the Mercenary and courtesan) just to see how I like that, too. BUt I really concur that putting this particular guy on the cover makes more sense.

My original cover was a Tuscan manor and garden... which is the opening setting for the female lead (who marries this guy) and i might try that one, too. It's hard to figure out what exactly to put on the cover.

Did anyone think it sounded like a better cover, to have a letter impaled on a desk with a dagger with blood drops on it? Or is that sort of thing overdone?
 
...(though I am a mediocre artist and i did it quick and free... well for about $8... but you get the point).

I'm mostly concerned that it might appear sort of a YA impression like the Harry Potter covers or something. I want the art itself to have a certian sophistication whether that be more shading or whatever, to project a professional feelActually, I hate the font. I just selected one I thought would be easy to read, but when it was on there, Blue Lotus copied the document image and now I can't change the font without starting over. Which... isn't time well spent at this point. :)

My original cover was a Tuscan manor and garden... which is the opening setting for the female lead (who marries this guy) and i might try that one, too. It's hard to figure out what exactly to put on the cover.

Did anyone think it sounded like a better cover, to have a letter impaled on a desk with a dagger with blood drops on it? Or is that sort of thing overdone?

If you have the original docx on your pc you can still edit it. I just sent you a copy in a format that could be posted. (kinda)

As for this "mediocre artist" stuff, I disagree! You have a style that is not seen much today and I for one love it!

As for the other ideas that you have had and have for alternatives, paint them and see. :)

I'm actually thinking I might pay you to do a simple painting for my cover art should I need to self pub.
For now the photo that I mocked up is fine. It is just for nano so I don't really care that much, but later when it does matter, I want something the resonates with emotion and you are right digi art does not have the same depth that hand work does.
 
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startist1

New Member
Hey there, Let me preface this by saying I am a professional illustrator and graphic designer with over 12 years of experience. My fiance' writes Fantasy fiction and is self publishing so I am getting to know the genre a bit and seeing what others are doing for cover art, before I delve into concepts for him. I completely agreed with this assessment of having the sword on the characters hip...leaning on the will make it more prominent and thereby inconsistent with your storyline. On the hip sounds great- who doesn't love that in costuming? Otherwise I'd say leave it out.


Just saw your latest reply re: leaving it out completely now- prob a good call. Sometimes your gut instinct is the correct one. I think as far as your other ideas, this is the right choice too.
 
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I think the picture is great with or without the sword, which could use some blood spatter. I have two other problems, though.

1. The picture is too wide for a book cover, unless it'll wraparound, so that the plaque goes on the spine, which would be neat. It if were set crossways on a cover, there would be a ton of space above and below it, plus the guy, shrunken, wouldn't have the same brooding impact.

2. Looking at the other books on the fantasy shelf, I think the watercolors make it look too soft. Covers nowadays are photorealistic, if they didn't start as photos initially. I'm all for something that stands out, but what books do you see it sitting next to on your ideal reader's shelf and how does the illustration indicate the book should be on that shelf?
 
Now I know this was started about the sword being on the cover or not, but I really wanted to play around with your picture and see if I could help you out with your cover. So here are some quick alternate ideas if you want any. (I've never designed a book cover before. So you can just pass right over me its all good.)
I didn't really play with the fonts or anything and if this were to work the colors need to be a bit darker have some more saturation.

title1_by_dragonlegends-d7m8ji1.jpg
title2_by_dragonlegends-d7m8jhr.jpg
 
I went back and saw that I missed how the cover would be divided between front and back, so I was wrong: that would look good, and personally I liked the sword. Lunaairis's new take is pretty sweet, but for the Harry Potter font. I'm not in love with the drop out white lettering, but the red works in contrast. The image does skew a bit YA, but the Tuscanness comes through.
 
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