Deus Ex Machina

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I'd say that it's possible to get away with using a DeM, but it is never the most satisfying possible option.

 

[YohannIan]

On the other hand, shouldn't this work in reverse? That is to say, one can use a Deus ex Machina as foreshadowing?

For example, suppose I've put my heroes into a situation where they are essentially doomed. They are outnumbered and surrounded and have failed to destroy the McGuffin, which is now in the hands of the villains, who are just about to finish the heroes off and take over the world. Evil has, apparently, triumphed!

...And then this mysterious unidentified third party shows up and just steamrolls the bad guys. Then they say something cryptic, steals the McGuffin and leaves. And everyone, heroes and villains alike, are like: "Wait, what? What the hell was that?"

Wouldn't that be an exciting twist? Suddenly there is a whole new faction that nobody knew about until that point, and everone has to deal with the fact that they no longer have any idea what's really going on.

I was going to ask the same thing! In this case, I strongly believe it isn't wrong and I don't really think it can be considered a DeM..because I would think the story doesn't end THERE and THEN. I would think that there's a sequel after that. (Makes a lot of plot expansions possible.)

 

[Janga]

I have been rereading The Hobbit and notice that it is full of instances of Deus Ex Machina. It seems in every scene Gandalf saves Bilbo and the dwarves from one certain death or another with his seemingly indestructible magic. I find as I become more and more interested in the fantasy genre, these types of solutions to problems in stories become less and less satisfying.

 

[Devor]

On the other hand, shouldn't this work in reverse? That is to say, one can use a Deus ex Machina as foreshadowing?

For example, suppose I've put my heroes into a situation where they are essentially doomed. They are outnumbered and surrounded and have failed to destroy the McGuffin, which is now in the hands of the villains, who are just about to finish the heroes off and take over the world. Evil has, apparently, triumphed!

...And then this mysterious unidentified third party shows up and just steamrolls the bad guys. Then they say something cryptic, steals the McGuffin and leaves. And everyone, heroes and villains alike, are like: "Wait, what? What the hell was that?"

Wouldn't that be an exciting twist? Suddenly there is a whole new faction that nobody knew about until that point, and everone has to deal with the fact that they no longer have any idea what's really going on.

It's still Deus ex Machina. It's still lazy writing. You should always introduce the supervening element before they save the day and wreck the future. However awesome you think it is, people will still go, "What the hell is this?" That's what I hear people say when it happens on television. That's what I think when it happens in a book. Maybe readers then throw that aside and go with it because you're doing well elsewhere, I don't know. But unless you're writing comedy, you need to give readers some perspective of who is doing the saving and the wrecking sometime before they actually do so.

I make only one exception. If the problem you're facing was lame to begin with, people might be relieved to see it just be done with and replaced by a better one. But if the problem is lame when you're writing a book, you should just go back and fix it.

 

[Anders Ämting]

It's still Deus ex Machina. It's still lazy writing. You should always introduce the supervening element before they save the day and wreck the future.

Uh huh? Why? Because someone told you that in a creative writing class or something, and you never thought to question it?

It's not the eleventh commandment or anything. We don't have to foreshadow everything, always. Forshadowing is a means to an end, not the end itself. And avoiding everything commonly thought to be "bad writing" does not make you a good writer, either. That's not skill, it's just caution.

However awesome you think it is, people will still go, "What the hell is this?" That's what I hear people say when it happens on television. That's what I think when it happens in a book. Maybe readers then throw that aside and go with it because you're doing well elsewhere, I don't know. But unless you're writing comedy, you need to give readers some perspective of who is doing the saving and the wrecking sometime before they actually do so.

What's wrong with surprising your readers? What's wrong with shaking them up a bit? If that's enough to make them give up on my story, it probably wasn't very good to begin with.

What I'm trying to say is: Don't blame the plot device. If I write a story with a deliberate deus ex machina, and the readers do not buy it, then that's my fault for not doing my job as an author. I'm the one who failed to make it work. But no plot device is inherently bad. There are no rules that, if broken, will automatically ruin your work.

 

[Devor]

Uh huh? Why? Because someone told you that in a creative writing class or something, and you never thought to question it?

I've never taken a creative writing class. I went to college for business.

Also, I already answered the question. When it happens, I see that people don't react well to it, and neither do I.

What's wrong with surprising your readers? What's wrong with shaking them up a bit? If that's enough to make them give up on my story, it probably wasn't very good to begin with.

The thing is, by utilizing Deus ex Machina you subvert the problem instead of resolve the problem. In your specific example, why should I care about the new villains and the situation which arises from their presence when I know that whatever problems are caused, some still nastier villain can just overthrow them. "Always" is not a word I use lightly, but I'll use it here: It is always better to resolve a serious problem by using internally established elements than to subvert the problem from the outside.

I already mentioned, though, that readers may stick it out through one weak point if your story is compelling in other ways.

((edit)) I don't know if you've started a response or even intend to, but if you are, what's so hard about introducing the new villains before they erase the intervening conflict?

 

[grahamguitarman]

I have been rereading The Hobbit and notice that it is full of instances of Deus Ex Machina. It seems in every scene Gandalf saves Bilbo and the dwarves from one certain death or another with his seemingly indestructible magic. I find as I become more and more interested in the fantasy genre, these types of solutions to problems in stories become less and less satisfying.

I think that's taking the definition of deus ex machina to a bit of an extreme. The reader expects that with a powerful wizard travelling along with the party, then he is going to use his magic to help them if he can. It wouldn't make sense if he didn't, and its not as if his magic suddenly appeared from left field without warning.

If I recall rightly Gandalf saves the party three times, once by using ventriloquism to trick the trolls into staying past sunrise to be turned into stone, once by dousing a fire and stabbing the goblin king with his sword, and once by casting fiery sparks at the wargs below the tree they are stuck in. Not exactly examples of indestrucible magic saving the day, and certainly not every scene!

If you are going to start using that kind of criteria to define deus ex machina then we might as well stop writing fantasy all together!

 

[Janga]

I think that's taking the definition of deus ex machina to a bit of an extreme. The reader expects that with a powerful wizard travelling along with the party, then he is going to use his magic to help them if he can. It wouldn't make sense if he didn't, and its not as if his magic suddenly appeared from left field without warning.

If I recall rightly Gandalf saves the party three times, once by using ventriloquism to trick the trolls into staying past sunrise to be turned into stone, once by dousing a fire and stabbing the goblin king with his sword, and once by casting fiery sparks at the wargs below the tree they are stuck in. Not exactly examples of indestrucible magic saving the day, and certainly not every scene!

If you are going to start using that kind of criteria to define deus ex machina then we might as well stop writing fantasy all together!

I agree, The Hobbit is a bad example for this thread. Sorry about that

 

[grahamguitarman]

I agree, The Hobbit is a bad example for this thread. Sorry about that

no worries

 

[helderuto]

Eagles can see a rat one mile away. Apply it to a hypothetical giant eagle and you have a one hundred mile long vision. Add to it the fact that Gandalf knew exactly where Frodo and Sam were (Mount Doom) and the hope that they were still alive and it was not only POSSIBLE but TOO EASY to the Eagles finding the Hobbits.

Therefore stop calling this scene a Deus Ex Machina because it isn't.

 

[ThinkerX]

For example, suppose I've put my heroes into a situation where they are essentially doomed. They are outnumbered and surrounded and have failed to destroy the McGuffin, which is now in the hands of the villains, who are just about to finish the heroes off and take over the world. Evil has, apparently, triumphed!

...And then this mysterious unidentified third party shows up and just steamrolls the bad guys. Then they say something cryptic, steals the McGuffin and leaves. And everyone, heroes and villains alike, are like: "Wait, what? What the hell was that?"

I've actually given serious thought to this sort of thing, as a plot twist rather than an ending.

Major Real World historical Deus Ex Machina:

Spanish conquest of Mexico, from the Aztec perspective. From that perspective, everything had been 'known' for centuries - possibly millenia. The enemies, the players, the gods, all that. Then the spanish literally show up out of nowhere and kick some serious butt.

I've contemplated something similiar: established, major nations pounding each other into pulp, when BAM! out of the sky (maybe literally) a third faction, with an entirely different tech level, of no known race appears out of nowhere with no warning or foreshadowing and clobbers both factions for reasons of their own.

 

[wordwalker]

As to Lord of the Rings eagles, I think 10 Deus Ex Machina Moments has it right. They

don't steal the show nor is it Tolkien’s intention that they should. The eagles are narrative tools, not the laurels on which the books’ ending or major character/thematic resolutions rest. They don’t necessarily ‘end the conflict’ so much as shepherd the characters away from final doom once the conflict has been dealt with by the characters.

Some people would say that letting Frodo and Sam survive what they've accepted to be a suicide mission is still cheating the scenario as it's been set up. Still, the key point is that they only change part of the situation, not solve the real problem. Also it's not total DEM since they've appeared before, plus we know it was Sauron's will and Nazgul that were keeping them out of Mordor until now, so with those destroyed they're not coming completely out of the blue. Except, well, literally.

 

[Jabrosky]

One of my favorite moments in all the movies I've seen is a Deus Ex Machina if you think about it:

Then again, it does come after the movie's major character arcs have been resolved, so it doesn't do much damage to the plot in the end.

 

[Addison]

Deus Ex Machina can be good or bad depending on how it's delivered and by what. As Jabrosky has shown, Jurassic park isn't a bad Deus Ex Machina. We became aware of the T-Rex earlier, it was an inciting incident. Between that scene and the cafeteria we were reminded that it was still running around as we heard it's roar. So we weren't that surprised when a ginat T-Rex head snapped into frame and snatched the raptor out of mid-jump.

Now if we hadn't known about the T-rex getting loose before it saved the characters, that would be a bad Deus Ex Machina. So if there's going to be something or someone who's existence saves the day, let the reader know it's breathing or running as soon as possible and maybe sprinkle in a few reminders along the way.