Dialogue Question: Am I Doing it Right?

[BWFoster78]

It has every relevance when it comes to creating characters you can identify with and relate to as being human. When someone says

"I love you," Tommy said.

and that's it, there's no punch. However:

"I love you." Tommy looked at the ground and toed at an invisible rock. "I was hoping..."

The actions within the beats and the words themselves cast a better picture than just saying said.

And yes, sometimes the harder route is the better way to go. It will challenge you to do more and better than relying on verbal tropes at times.

"I love you," Tommy said.

In this version, the focus is on the words "I love you." This works great if you're trying to make those words be impactful and convey simply that Tommy is the one saying it.

"I love you." Tommy looked at the ground and toed at an invisible rock. "I was hoping..."

This version emphasizes Tommy's attitude in saying the words. If that's where the emphasis belongs, that's fantastic. However, sometimes you want the words to stand out over the action or character's emotion.

Again, what does the story require? Saying that one way is always the best seems limiting.

 

[Butterfly]

From what I understand of this, the tags that are normally under debate aren't so much the he said /she said tags. These are regarded as invisible and need to be used in order to clarify who is speaking. Even with beats and actions they can't always bring that clarity without tags. You can't avoid them completely, and shouldn't try to just because its supposed to be a rule. In fact, the rules are ones that have come about to avoid overusing certain things, such as adverbs, not to avoid the use completely.

In the OP example I am feeling this confusion as to who is actually doing the talking in places, particularly when you have two characters in the same paragraph.

The tags that are advised to avoid, are such tags as - he growled, she shrieked, he postulated, she wailed, he shouted, she asked... anything that isn't a said.

 

[Graylorne]

My point was, that sometimes you have to use a qualification. Not postulated, but shrieked, wailed, these things aren't clear in the text. So you have to find a way to indicate them, only not as a tag.

 

[Shockley]

Granted, using 'yelled' and 'screamed' is sometimes necessary - hopefully, though, that's kept to a minimum.

I'd suggest reading one of my favorite writers, Elmore Leonard. He started out in westerns (which is where I met him) but now he writes more difficult thrillers, mysteries, etc. He only ever uses '*blank* said' and he does it masterfully. Really the perfect example.

 

[BWFoster78]

My point was, that sometimes you have to use a qualification. Not postulated, but shrieked, wailed, these things aren't clear in the text. So you have to find a way to indicate them, only not as a tag.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one.

I tend to use "muttered" or "whispered" occasionally to indicate how the words were spoken.

I generally consider it poor craft to use the speech tag to try to convey emotion. The words and the context should convey the emotion, not the tag.

 

[Xaysai]

So what I've learned from this thread is the following:

1) He said/she said should be used sparingly, but are sometimes necessary to avoid confusion when more than one person is speaking.

2) Adverbial tags such as "He said coyly" shouldn't be used in place of more clear and proper beat or action tags, but might be necessary depending on the situation.

3) Overuse of He said/She said can become distracting and mire your storytelling in unwanted word clutter while overuse of beat or action tags can become distracting by making the characters seem "fidgety".

It sounds like He said/She said, adverbial tags and beat/action tags are all tools in our writers toolkit, and it's our job to select the best tool for the job.

It seems like the best thing for me to focus on while writing dialogue is asking "what am I trying to convey here, and what is the best tool for the job?"

 

[Leif Notae]

"I love you," Tommy said.

In this version, the focus is on the words "I love you." This works great if you're trying to make those words be impactful and convey simply that Tommy is the one saying it.

"I love you." Tommy looked at the ground and toed at an invisible rock. "I was hoping..."

This version emphasizes Tommy's attitude in saying the words. If that's where the emphasis belongs, that's fantastic. However, sometimes you want the words to stand out over the action or character's emotion.

Again, what does the story require? Saying that one way is always the best seems limiting.

Then to each their own and the gods love us for our differences.

It looks like the thread has answered the question asked, so I will leave this one be and let the debate continue without me.

 

[BWFoster78]

So what I've learned from this thread is the following:

1) He said/she said should be used sparingly, but are sometimes necessary to avoid confusion when more than one person is speaking.

2) Adverbial tags such as "He said coyly" shouldn't be used in place of more clear and proper beat or action tags, but might be necessary depending on the situation.

3) Overuse of He said/She said can become distracting and mire your storytelling in unwanted word clutter while overuse of beat or action tags can become distracting by making the characters seem "fidgety".

It sounds like He said/She said, adverbial tags and beat/action tags are all tools in our writers toolkit, and it's our job to select the best tool for the job.

It seems like the best thing for me to focus on while writing dialogue is asking "what am I trying to convey here, and what is the best tool for the job?"

Xaysai,

I think you've got it, especially with that last line!

A final thought: any technique, no matter how awesome it is, tends to distract if overused.

 

[Graylorne]

So what I've learned from this thread is the following:

1) He said/she said should be used sparingly, but are sometimes necessary to avoid confusion when more than one person is speaking.

2) Adverbial tags such as "He said coyly" shouldn't be used in place of more clear and proper beat or action tags, but might be necessary depending on the situation.

3) Overuse of He said/She said can become distracting and mire your storytelling in unwanted word clutter while overuse of beat or action tags can become distracting by making the characters seem "fidgety".

It sounds like He said/She said, adverbial tags and beat/action tags are all tools in our writers toolkit, and it's our job to select the best tool for the job.

It seems like the best thing for me to focus on while writing dialogue is asking "what am I trying to convey here, and what is the best tool for the job?"

Yes, I'd say you're right.

I'd say it even stronger: all those writing 'rules' suffer from the same problem. Someone understood wrong and wrote 'rules' instead of 'tools'. For they're all tools, you only have to know when to use them and when not.

 

[Penpilot]

It seems like the best thing for me to focus on while writing dialogue is asking "what am I trying to convey here, and what is the best tool for the job?"

Yes, like BW said, that's probably the most important thing to take out of this.

Sure you can hammer a nail with a wrench, but should you? Some times if you're feeling wacky you'll do it just because it might be fun, and sometimes it's wiser not to. The choice is yours, and learning to deal with the choices in front of you is one of the things that's not emphasized enough about writing.

 

[MAndreas]

You guys have some great stuff here, but also keep in mind said is often considered to be an invisable word- go pick up whatever book you're reading right now and if you really look for them, you'll most likely find alot. Just something to think about- a beat of action is great, but sometimes an invisable tag is better .

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

You guys have some great stuff here, but also keep in mind said is often considered to be an invisable word- go pick up whatever book you're reading right now and if you really look for them, you'll most likely find alot. Just something to think about- a beat of action is great, but sometimes an invisable tag is better .

I agree with this to a point. If every tag is "said John" "said Mary" "said Pete" that will stand out as well. Moderation is everything. Utilization of differing and alternating speech tag types, to avoid redundancy and patterns, work best for me as a reader and writer. Sometimes, in the telling of the story a particular method will work better with a particular line.

 

[wordwalker]

You guys have some great stuff here, but also keep in mind said is often considered to be an invisable word- go pick up whatever book you're reading right now and if you really look for them, you'll most likely find alot. Just something to think about- a beat of action is great, but sometimes an invisable tag is better .

I agree with this to a point. If every tag is "said John" "said Mary" "said Pete" that will stand out as well. Moderation is everything. Utilization of differing and alternating speech tag types, to avoid redundancy and patterns, work best for me as a reader and writer. Sometimes, in the telling of the story a particular method will work better with a particular line.

I'm with the Smith. Call it a petty peeve of mine:

Said is "considered" invisible because growled and the like are so much more visible, and easier to overuse. Yes, Said is often the right compromise between unclearness (taglessness) and risking excess (power verbs or beats), but let's not say it can't be overused just because other things go bad faster.

 

[Penpilot]

I'm with the Smith. Call it a petty peeve of mine:

Said is "considered" invisible because growled and the like are so much more visible, and easier to overuse. Yes, Said is often the right compromise between unclearness (taglessness) and risking excess (power verbs or beats), but let's not say it can't be overused just because other things go bad faster.

I'm reading a short story by Cory Doctorow right now, and as I read, it feels like a none stop barrage of 'said'. I shouldn't notice it but it's being used when it isn't necessary, and it's like a poke in the eye every time