Faerie weapons? - not made of iron!

[Shockley]

You could go old-school fantastic metals - orichalc/orichalcum. It basically means 'mountain copper' and was probably a kind of copper that was particularly bright (or yellowish), but was associated with the Atlanteans for its strength and durability.

Or you could make up something, like faerie-silver (I like that) or glowcopper or somesuch.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Bronze I'd tend to stay away from as such, simply because everyone knows it and most people know it was replaced by steel for obvious reason.

If I recall correctly, the obvious reason is currently belived to have been a severe shortage of tin, not that iron alloy weapons were better. (They weren't really, not innitially.)

But if instead you used the copper part of the bronze alloy and mixed it with something else, say chromium, you could create an interesting alloy that might look damned good. Call it say eldritch copper or some such.

Chromium copper exists. It is, from what I can tell, somewhat weaker and softer than ordinary phosphor bronze but with the same tensile strenght.

Keep in mind that bronze comes in several different alloys - in fact we mostly use the word "copper alloy" these days because it can tricky to tell bronzes from brasses. (Gunmetal can be considered both, for example.) Some bronzes are more suited for weapons than other.

Anyway, the point is that if your entire society happens to be allergic to iron to the point of it being impossible to handle, then bronze is easily the second best alternative. The fairies can't help that the one superior weapon technology happens to be made out of poison.

Yes the reason stated above is why I did shy away from bronze - I have a book on swords and it didn't sound too appealing in the book!

I'm curious, what did you find unappealing about it?

 

[Jess A]

Anders: The book gives the impression that iron ore weapons are less prone to fracture/breakage. This isn't an ancient-time world either - I'm using a world similar to Renaissance-era Europe. As mentioned in my original post, I actually want the weapons to be every bit as lethal and durable and accessible (to the faeries) as human weapons.

Problem is, a lot of people have mentioned various alloys, but I know very, very little about alloys. So my knowledge is probably incorrect in any case. It has been a long time since I studied this sort of thing - and that was in high school. I know you have a very epic knowledge of swords. How superior were swords/weapons in the 1500, 1600s compared to iron alloy weapons made in earlier times? How does this compare to bronze weapons?

I'm yet to determine whether humans can wield faerie weapons, and whether a specific type of faerie would mine the metals or trade with humans. Problem is, if they did trade with humans in the past, they don't much anymore, so they would be left short. This means they have to obtain the metal themselves. I would also like humans to find faerie-made weapons admirable. Perhaps the beautiful inscriptions, perhaps that they are in some ways actually superior to human blades. Pointing me again to magic influence or some mysterious metal. This fits with the plot better than the humans having superior weapons.

Hope this explains a little more, thanks again for all your help everyone!

 

[Shockley]

Anders: The book gives the impression that iron ore weapons are less prone to fracture/breakage.

Depends on the quality of the blacksmith.

For the longest period of time, copper was still superior to iron - iron was just cheaper to mine and easier to forge, and thus a nation utilizing iron over copper could generally throw out more soldiers. For a good while after iron replaced copper, your average officer still preferred copper weaponry due to its superior quality.

 

[Butterfly]

How about weapons made of crystal? A type that can only be found in faerie land and mined just like any other resource.

 

[ThinkerX]

Time for a really basic question here:

Who are the fey's primary enemies? If it is other fey, then you'd want weapons made of something highly dangerous to fey - aka 'iron'.

So...axes with wooden handles and iron heads. Maybe kept by fey leaders for intimidating other fey. 'Yeah, go ahead and look at it - thats real iron up there, the death metal. Nothing you got will stand against it and I got the guts to use it.'

 

[Jess A]

Butterfly: Someone did mention crystal. I agree it is a nice idea. They could get special faerie crystal for sure.

Shockley: I did not know this about copper?

Time for a really basic question here:

Who are the fey's primary enemies? If it is other fey, then you'd want weapons made of something highly dangerous to fey - aka 'iron'.

So...axes with wooden handles and iron heads. Maybe kept by fey leaders for intimidating other fey. 'Yeah, go ahead and look at it - thats real iron up there, the death metal. Nothing you got will stand against it and I got the guts to use it.'

This is true, though the faeries do not often risk having iron in their 'worlds'. It would upset the balance. Certainly if in the human lands, they might use iron against another faerie, though usually the faeries who dare to touch an iron weapon (even with a different material to hold onto) have lived in the human lands for some time. For torture, the more charming faeries might employ iron with some risk. But as far as weapons go - unless they are trading with humans, or having human blacksmiths forge the weapons, it doesn't seem realistic to have them obtain iron without great trouble. They no longer trade with humans - not for a very long time.

 

[Chilari]

I suspect Shockley meant bronze, not copper. And it is certainly possible that a shortage of tin is what led to the iron age, rather than superiority of iron. because iron is more brittle, has a different type of strength (I can't remember what though) and required a different shape to things made of bronze to be equal in usefulness - though the earliest iron weapons were cast in the same manner as the later bronze ones so probably weren't particularly useful. Meanwhile, tin certainly was scarce. Britain became wealthy off tin mined in Cornwall and in fact was known by Herodotus' time as the "Tin Island" (except in Greek) which goes so show - if they had to travel that far afield to get hold of it, scarcity was always a risk. Thus there is every chance, before certain sources - new mines and so on - were discovered, there could well have been a shortage of tin, without which iron suddenly looks very attractive. But the means of smelting iron in the early period, and in fact of extracting it, were terribly inefficient. It didn't because really good until charcoal was used in the smelting to create steel, which made it a lot stronger by removing impurities.

 

[Ireth]

There are Fae that do use iron weapons, though they are both quite uncivilized and also equipped with magical protection from it. Redcaps are the only example I can think of; they use iron daggers and wear iron boots, and the caps that give them their name are enchanted to protect them from iron, as long as they wear them. Once the cap comes off, hello fiery pain and feet roasting in their boots.

 

[Jess A]

I suspect Shockley meant bronze, not copper. And it is certainly possible that a shortage of tin is what led to the iron age, rather than superiority of iron. because iron is more brittle, has a different type of strength (I can't remember what though) and required a different shape to things made of bronze to be equal in usefulness - though the earliest iron weapons were cast in the same manner as the later bronze ones so probably weren't particularly useful. Meanwhile, tin certainly was scarce. Britain became wealthy off tin mined in Cornwall and in fact was known by Herodotus' time as the "Tin Island" (except in Greek) which goes so show - if they had to travel that far afield to get hold of it, scarcity was always a risk. Thus there is every chance, before certain sources - new mines and so on - were discovered, there could well have been a shortage of tin, without which iron suddenly looks very attractive. But the means of smelting iron in the early period, and in fact of extracting it, were terribly inefficient. It didn't because really good until charcoal was used in the smelting to create steel, which made it a lot stronger by removing impurities.

It's quite tempting to have one of the cultures in my book mine tin and use bronze, due to all of this discussion. I have one culture it might fit quite well, because they're quite isolated from most of the others and trade more amongst themselves - they could be in a tin-rich area, or they could have a shortage and it prompts them to scout further for alternatives. Certainly learnt something this week!

There are Fae that do use iron weapons, though they are both quite uncivilized and also equipped with magical protection from it. Redcaps are the only example I can think of; they use iron daggers and wear iron boots, and the caps that give them their name are enchanted to protect them from iron, as long as they wear them. Once the cap comes off, hello fiery pain and feet roasting in their boots.

That's intriguing. I didn't know that either. I have a good faerie book which I might scout through for the Redcaps. I still think I will avoid most faeries using iron (except for torture; some of them aren't the nicest of creatures).

 

[Fakefaux]

My initial thought is that you simply don't need to address it. Most traditional stories where fairy warriors show up don't, after all. Unless it's directly relevant to the story, why point it out to the reader? Still, if there's a lot of warfare involving the fairies directly in the story, and not just as setting background, references to their weapons will likely come up. Even if it is background, you also might just want a bit of flavor for when a fairy warrior does show up.

One cheat is the concept of "cold" iron. This is really just an archaic term for any sort of iron, but many fantasy writers have chosen to interpret it as a particular type of iron. Just what it means varies from writer to writer. I've seen some people claim it only means raw, un-worked iron. I've seen it reference only meteoric iron. Mind you, this all sort of detracts from the simple symbolism of iron repelling fairies; it's a product of civilization, of mankind's advancement, while fairies are a part of the natural world that civilization slowly tames/drives back.

Alternatively, keep the inherent contradiction in. Fairies have always been contradictory beings in folklore and myth. There are certain rules that apply to them, but these rules are very fluid, and for every two stories that stick to them, there's one that does not. Having your fairies be both vulnerable to iron yet still using metal weapons is a quick and easy way to get across that the nature of fairies is to be weird, confusing, and mysterious.

 

[Jess A]

My initial thought is that you simply don't need to address it. Most traditional stories where fairy warriors show up don't, after all. Unless it's directly relevant to the story, why point it out to the reader? Still, if there's a lot of warfare involving the fairies directly in the story, and not just as setting background, references to their weapons will likely come up. Even if it is background, you also might just want a bit of flavor for when a fairy warrior does show up.

One cheat is the concept of "cold" iron. This is really just an archaic term for any sort of iron, but many fantasy writers have chosen to interpret it as a particular type of iron. Just what it means varies from writer to writer. I've seen some people claim it only means raw, un-worked iron. I've seen it reference only meteoric iron. Mind you, this all sort of detracts from the simple symbolism of iron repelling fairies; it's a product of civilization, of mankind's advancement, while fairies are a part of the natural world that civilization slowly tames/drives back.

Alternatively, keep the inherent contradiction in. Fairies have always been contradictory beings in folklore and myth. There are certain rules that apply to them, but these rules are very fluid, and for every two stories that stick to them, there's one that does not. Having your fairies be both vulnerable to iron yet still using metal weapons is a quick and easy way to get across that the nature of fairies is to be weird, confusing, and mysterious.

It actually is a plot device, which is why I'm going to the effort to make a post about it There are some scenes where faerie warriors appear, and one of the MCs is a faerie warrior.

The point about the iron is interesting. I do want many of the faeries to come across as mysterious and somewhat frightening to humans - though humans have, in the past, traded with them, and some faeries live almost in human society (not commonly). This is why I didn't want iron to be an extreme allergy. But it is a dangerous one if used in certain ways. Throwing an iron object at a faerie for instance will just make the faerie laugh. But stab a faerie and it's a whole different story.

I also want to look at a reason for the iron being an allergy. Having my faeries mine their own metals seems contradictory to them symbolising nature. But at the same time, their methods of mining would be very different and less widespread. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them mining at all. I could avoid mentioning the reason for iron allergy at all and let readers go with that common assumption that you outlined above (faeries = nature, iron = man's attempted domination over nature, man's advancement). I don't know if I want to approach it any further than that.

 

[Fakefaux]

Are your fairies a race of physical beings, like us, who just happen to have magical powers? Or are they they more like the quasi spirit-beings of legend? As for fairies mining metal, make it a part of their connection with nature. Imagine one of them commanding iron veins to grow out of the earth, like twisting vines that coil together in the shape of trees, which the fairies then "harvest."

Mind you traditional fairies probably didn't need to "mine" anything. If they wanted it, it appeared in their hand.

 

[Ireth]

As for fairies mining metal, make it a part of they connection with nature. Imagine one of them commanding iron veins to grow out of the earth, like twisting vines that coil together in the shape of trees, which the fairies then "harvest."

That's a really neat idea. I might just use it for my Fae stories. ^^

 

[Jess A]

Are your fairies a race of physical beings, like us, who just happen to have magical powers? Or are they they more like the quasi spirit-beings of legend? As for fairies mining metal, make it a part of their connection with nature. Imagine one of them commanding iron veins to grow out of the earth, like twisting vines that coil together in the shape of trees, which the fairies then "harvest."

Mind you traditional fairies probably didn't need to "mine" anything. If they wanted it, it appeared in their hand.

Yeah, good idea. Might also go with a variation of that, as Ireth said, though probably not iron. Maybe with something else...hmm...

Some faeries are pretty much just physical beings. Others are less substantial - not spirits (those are something else in my book, though they're related). Faeries are quite varied but they have a few things in common. It's humans who have grouped them that way.

 

[Alexandra]

Mind you traditional fairies probably didn't need to "mine" anything. If they wanted it, it appeared in their hand.

Too easy

 

[Jess A]

Too easy

Definitely - it just wouldn't serve the plot. Mine is a fantasy world and the beings are based on traditional faeries, but with my own take on them.