Harry Potter's magic system?

[Sheilawisz]

Phoenix, they can use non-verbal magic by just thinking the words, but when they learn that skill it's very difficult and frustrating until they finally master the trick =) It's a really good series, we just have to read and enjoy it for what it is or else we get a headache trying to explain the magic system like Benjamin says!!

 

[Erica]

I'd say her magic system was pretty omnipotent, except for the limitation of having to use a wand and a few restrictions. The basic thing seems to be that magic is innate (you can either do it or not), and raw ability trumps hard work (I mean, Harry was a pretty awful student and he never bothered to design his own spells as a student like Hermione, Snape, or even his dad and Sirius did), but he was still the chosen one. I never understood the part about magic not being able to bring you back to life in HP but then it could be used to create life. For instance, transfiguring teacup into a genuine hamster that went on to live a normal hamster life with normal hamster experiences (such that they are). I mean, is an actual critter conjured up from random molecules? Seems like if you could do that and actually create a living, breathing, thinking creature, then bringing someone back to life is a snap. I still liked the books, but that part always bugged me a bit.

 

[Phoenix]

Now that seems pretty cool (the thinking the magic in the head thing). But do you not see that they could stand in a court yard and blast spells with no consequence? I mean it irks me. Most magic has consequences. How about the life thing stated above? They can create life out of a cup, why not just bring life back?

 

[Sheilawisz]

I'd say her magic system was pretty omnipotent, except for the limitation of having to use a wand and a few restrictions. The basic thing seems to be that magic is innate (you can either do it or not), and raw ability trumps hard work (I mean, Harry was a pretty awful student and he never bothered to design his own spells as a student like Hermione, Snape, or even his dad and Sirius did), but he was still the chosen one. I never understood the part about magic not being able to bring you back to life in HP but then it could be used to create life. For instance, transfiguring teacup into a genuine hamster that went on to live a normal hamster life with normal hamster experiences (such that they are). I mean, is an actual critter conjured up from random molecules? Seems like if you could do that and actually create a living, breathing, thinking creature, then bringing someone back to life is a snap. I still liked the books, but that part always bugged me a bit.

Erica, you have a very interesting point here =) I have also considered that with the powers that HP wizards and witches have, death should not really be a problem for them and they should be capable of bringing the dead back to life!! They cannot simply because Rowling decided to put some unexplained limitations to her magic, just like that pointless thing about the wizards not being able to magically produce any kind of food...

I still think that transfiguring a rock into a dog like Cedric did in the Triwizard Tournament is the solution to that =)

In my stories, my mages can easily take things out of nowhere, I mean, anything they want just appears (not from "thin air" I mean from nowhere) and that can include living creatures if they want... they can just make dragons appear and attack, and those dragons would instantly have a consciousness and souls of their own

My mages can actually give life back to dead bodies, that's very easy- the little problem here is that they cannot guarantee that the souls of dead people will return to those bodies, so this is one of the few limitations that I have given to my magic system in my stories!!

Phoenix, in my magic system there are no serious consequences unless they go rampage with their awful reality-shattering weapons!! Apart from that, my mages do anything they want consequence-free and I love them =)

 

[Phoenix]

I didn't say it was bad, just irks me. If you feel that way go ahead, as long as you got a well crafted story I'll read. As for your creatures are they summoned from some other world? Like a time or something? Do they just will them and craft them out of magic. I do love your bringing back the dead, that was pretty cool.

 

[Sheilawisz]

I didn't say it was bad, just irks me. If you feel that way go ahead, as long as you got a well crafted story I'll read. As for your creatures are they summoned from some other world? Like a time or something? Do they just will them and craft them out of magic. I do love your bringing back the dead, that was pretty cool.

Thanks, Phoenix!! You are the first person here in Mythic Scribes that thinks that my mages are cool =) When they create anything (from a glass of plum juice to an entire castle) you only see violet sparks or a flash of white light and there it is, it comes out of nowhere and it's not really summoned from anywhere... The mages themselves do come from other realities and are not native of the endless sea universe where most of my stories take place =)

 

[Phoenix]

Are they rare or common? Do regular humans or other beings despise them of their powers, or are they praised for it? I would love to understand your story.

 

[myrddin173]

Perhaps we can move the discussion of Sheilawisz' mages elsewhere. It would be best to keep this thread to its original purpose. A thread in the Brainstorming forum would be best, I think.

As for the whole bringing people back from the dead in Harry Potter. I agree with how she did it. Animals are not self-aware in the way humans are, they act mostly on instinct. Therefore it would be fairly easy to replicate them. People, however are not that simple. Bringing someone back form the dead would take knowing that person in every fiber of their being, something even the person themselves wouldn't know, or perhaps even want to.

 

[Sheilawisz]

As for the whole bringing people back from the dead in Harry Potter. I agree with how she did it. Animals are not self-aware in the way humans are, they act mostly on instinct. Therefore it would be fairly easy to replicate them. People, however are not that simple. Bringing someone back form the dead would take knowing that person in every fiber of their being, something even the person themselves wouldn't know, or perhaps even want to.

In my opinion, doing what you have described would actually create a replica of that person instead of bringing someone back to life... it would not be the same person at all, just a copy... The real trick to bring the dead back to life would be to bring their souls back, the body is just a carrier =)

Phoenix: There are around fifty five thousand of them in my main world when my first novel starts, two mage cities with society and government of their own =) Common people are sometimes curious about the mages, and sometimes terrified instead... Anyway, Myrddin here is right and we should not hijack the thread!! I'll send a message to you

 

[Devor]

In my opinion, doing what you have described would actually create a replica of that person instead of bringing someone back to life... it would not be the same person at all, just a copy... The real trick to bring the dead back to life would be to bring their souls back, the body is just a carrier =)

In the world of Harry Potter, you can create an imprint of a person and place it in magical items, such as the portraits in the Headmaster's Office. Following this, it would be easy enough to say that transfiguration only creates an imprint of an animal's personality without copying the soul, explaining why you could transfigure animals without making it possible to resurrect the dead. Also, there's no reason to assume that transfigured animals are in any way edible; they may retain the taste and nutrition of their original form, kind of like the pincushions that squirm like the rodents they used to be.

Not to say there's no problems with HP's system. In my opinion the biggest problem is simply that no system is properly presented. We're never given a list of what magic can and cannot do. We have nothing to evaluate the system by except for what we're shown.

Based on what is shown, the most bizarre elements, I think, are the Tabboo placed on Voldemort's name, or the "trace" placed on underage magic. Compared to most spells they are particularly far-reaching.

 

[Sheilawisz]

In the world of Harry Potter, you can create an imprint of a person and place it in magical items, such as the portraits in the Headmaster's Office. Following this, it would be easy enough to say that transfiguration only creates an imprint of an animal's personality without copying the soul, explaining why you could transfigure animals without making it possible to resurrect the dead. Also, there's no reason to assume that transfigured animals are in any way edible; they may retain the taste and nutrition of their original form, kind of like the pincushions that squirm like the rodents they used to be.

You have a very interesting point here, Devor =) That could explain why the wizards in HP cannot get food by magical means, which is for me the most disappointing part of the magic in that world.

 

[arbiter117]

I think Rowling has something figured out, but I never understood it. I had a discussion with some friends about HP vs Voldemort, and we all come to the same conclusion: did nobody think to say "accio Voldemort's (insert vital organ)"? It seems to be a simpler and messier solution than anything else.

 

[myrddin173]

I think Rowling has something figured out, but I never understood it. I had a discussion with some friends about HP vs Voldemort, and we all come to the same conclusion: did nobody think to say "accio Voldemort's (insert vital organ)"? It seems to be a simpler and messier solution than anything else.

I think it is probably be that it is impossible to summon anything from within a person's body. Like in Mistborn, it is impossible to push or pull on metals in another's body.


As for the discussion of creating food or bringing back the dead. I think we might be over-thinking things. It is magic, the limitations can be there without making sense.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Forget about summoning internal organs, just turn the blood of your enemy into muriatic acid and that's all!! Maybe instead you could transform the air around your enemies into flammable gas and set it on fire... it would depend on their creativity, really those wizards are way more lethal than most readers realize when they read the books

I think it's rather silly that Voldemort was so obsessed with Avada Kedavra instead of so many other potential ways to kill and terrify his enemies: If I had been him, I would have cut off Harry's head and impaled it on a spear (to feel bloody sure that he was dead and to cause a psychological impact) and carried it myself instead of making Hagrid carry the "dead" Harry!! Super Evil characters always end up losing because of little mistakes like that =P

I agree that we are over-thinking things, Myrddin... but it's fun!!

 

[myrddin173]

I agree that we are over-thinking things, Myrddin... but it's fun!!

Well of course it is, why else would we do it?

What was it Hermione said during Snape's challenge in Philosopher's Stone? Something about how most wizards, or witches don't have a lick of common sense. They have a curse that kills people, why would they do it any other way...

 

[Devor]

Well of course it is, why else would we do it?

What was it Hermione said during Snape's challenge in Philosopher's Stone? Something about how most wizards, or witches don't have a lick of common sense. They have a curse that kills people, why would they do it any other way...

I just want to know the curse Molly used in the last chapter.

 

[Sheilawisz]

They would want to find alternative ways to kill because Avada Kedavra is illegal while other things are not =) Personally, if I were a dark witch in the HP world I would be very fond of Fiendfyre, but Transfiguration offers the greatest potential when it comes to find creative ways to attack your enemies!!

Also, Avada Kedavra kills one target per hit so it could be considered a weak weapon: Fiendfyre seems to be capable of killing loads of people one hit, what would happen if they released that thing in a muggle city and let it go rampage??

Devor: That was the Molly Curse =) Nothing special in the book, I liked the movie version better =)

 

[myrddin173]

They would want to find alternative ways to kill because Avada Kedavra is illegal while other things are not =) Personally, if I were a dark witch in the HP world I would be very fond of Fiendfyre, but Transfiguration offers the greatest potential when it comes to find creative ways to attack your enemies!!

Also, Avada Kedavra kills one target per hit so it could be considered a weak weapon: Fiendfyre seems to be capable of killing loads of people one hit, what would happen if they released that thing in a muggle city and let it go rampage??

Devor: That was the Molly Curse =) Nothing special in the book, I liked the movie version better =)

Well real Dark Wizards, or Witches don't care if something is illegal, they will use what ever they want. I also think killing anyone with magic is illegal...

I thought I had read somewhere that Fiendfyre had been released in a muggle city. I don't remember which one though.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Well, they never say in the books that murder is illegal so we really don't know =) Anyway, what would happen if you simply transfigure your victim into an apple and then eat the apple?? How would anyone find out what happened?? About Fiendfyre, if there is a fanfiction like that I have to find it, I have been thinking about that ever since I finished reading Deathly Hallows.