How to handle a Catholic character?

[Ireth]

This is a fascinating discussion. I've had some Catholic and ex-Catholic characters in roleplays, and dealing with their faith or lack of it is interesting. The first character in question, a lycanthrope named Jason, was raised Catholic, but was excommunicated after coming out as gay when he was sixteen. For a few years afterward he still clung to the beliefs for the most part, especially the Commandments, though he didn't bother confessing his sins anymore. His father Casper, on the other hand, continues to be a very devout Catholic. When Jason came out, Casper was extremely opposed, and is the one who pushed for the excommunication. But he mellowed out after a few years, and even came to accept Jason's boyfriend (who is bisexual and also an ex-Catholic, interestingly enough) as dang near family. It helped that they both saved each other's lives a time or two, too. When Jason accidentally turned Casper into a lycanthrope, Casper initially struggled with reconciling his faith and the supernatural nature of his disease. Then he met a vampire who had been Catholic too, but after hundreds of years he became more of a conservative Lutheran, taking up the habit of confessing his sins directly to God rather than a priest. That was an interesting conversation to play out.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

What might be interesting for your character is if he went to Catholic school. I know people who would put the statue of Mary in the school's attic window and then backlight her so it looked like a ghost. To this day students share an urban myth that the school is haunted because of that. And the stories of the nuns I hear from my Dad's side of the family are always fun. It really is fascinating to hear these stories.

 

[Tom]

This is a fascinating discussion. I've had some Catholic and ex-Catholic characters in roleplays, and dealing with their faith or lack of it is interesting. The first character in question, a lycanthrope named Jason, was raised Catholic, but was excommunicated after coming out as gay when he was sixteen. For a few years afterward he still clung to the beliefs for the most part, especially the Commandments, though he didn't bother confessing his sins anymore. His father Casper, on the other hand, continues to be a very devout Catholic. When Jason came out, Casper was extremely opposed, and is the one who pushed for the excommunication. But he mellowed out after a few years, and even came to accept Jason's boyfriend (who is bisexual and also an ex-Catholic, interestingly enough) as dang near family. It helped that they both saved each other's lives a time or two, too. When Jason accidentally turned Casper into a lycanthrope, Casper initially struggled with reconciling his faith and the supernatural nature of his disease. Then he met a vampire who had been Catholic too, but after hundreds of years he became more of a conservative Lutheran, taking up the habit of confessing his sins directly to God rather than a priest. That was an interesting conversation to play out.

I actually decided to do something like that--one of the vampires in Will's clan, his secondary and closest friend, is Lutheran. They enjoy debating their beliefs, and have this back-and-forth argument routine established as sort of an in-joke. I also have some Lutherans in my family (I'm German, after all) and I feel comfortable writing about Lutheranism. I've tried to keep these exchanges light-hearted but also recognizable as legitimate theological debates, maintaining a respectful attitude toward both denominations.

You know, this thread has made me realize just how Catholic life in Western New York is. We have the famous Friday night fish fry--no meat on Fridays for Catholics. Catholic schools everywhere--during middle school, all but two of my friends attended the local Catholic school. Even Protestants are less strict about alcohol around here--Catholic attitudes rubbing off on us, perhaps?

 

[TheCatholicCrow]

strictly attends the Traditional Latin Mass (FSSP, in union with Rome, in case The Catholic Crow is wondering

That's wonderful- one of my little brothers is an FSSP Seminarian the only FSSP parish I've been to is St Ann's in San Diego and it was breathtaking.

About the obscure points ... yeah ... I majored in Religious Studies and run a Catholic community site. I saw the thread and just couldn't help myself.

 

[Trick]

Even Protestants are less strict about alcohol around here--Catholic attitudes rubbing off on us, perhaps?

Though Catholics are known to drink, especially Irish Catholics, there is a basic rule about such things. All things not intrinsically sinful are allowed in moderation. For instance, it is not a considered a sin to smoke but one should exercise self control. It just so happens that drinking has sort of pushed to the forefront of things Catholics are known for. A favorite saying of many Catholics I know, including myself, when confronted by a Protestant who believes drinking is wrong or at least generally frowned upon, is 'Jesus Himself drank wine.' Honestly, it's usually used to defend over-drinking as opposed to drinking in moderation (I've been guilty of that for sure)

 

[KC Trae Becker]

... every Catholic I've ever met has been supremely devout.

I'm a homeschooling Catholic that was baptized Catholic but my immediate family didn't practice beyond baptisms, weddings and funerals, and was raised mostly faithless. I choose protestantism as a teen of my own accord and had a conversion experience in a Methodist church. Then I went to an Anabaptist Christian college and participated in street witnessing, leading Christian kids camps, teen youth organizations and leading alter calls in homeless shelters.

At college I met and I married a man who was also baptized Catholic and received First Holy Communion then his parents left Catholicism to become Nondenominational Charismatic. He became a Biblical Studies major. We both converted to Brethren In Christ. He preached several sermons and we lead a community youth program while living in housing provided by the church.

My husband was exposed to Catholic authors and priests in his bible classes (that usually gets a laugh from people familiar with the stereotypes of the two halves of Church) and lead us both to convert back to Catholicism. I have taught at a Catholic school, in CCD and been a Eucharistic minister. My husband has guest lectured classes back at our college helping to bridge the gap between the two halves of the Church which mostly involved explaining certain Catholic beliefs and practices to Protestations but there were some Catholics in the class that were very appreciative of smoothing hackles. Some of the few Catholics there even learned about their own faith through the lectures.

I am raising my kids Catholic even though my husband has now become atheist and mostly identifies with Buddhism. My children and I still are faithful attenders of mass and religious education. I have friends and family members all over the spectrum and have had more religious discussions than I care to remember. Though my experience is mostly limited to the U.S., I've found that there are all types of religious ideas and commitment levels in every religion.

You could have your character believe just about anything you want and make it believable. Do the research to help make it believable, but don't stress about making it authentic. There is probably someone out there that believes or practices just about anyway you'd like to portray your character. Just be respectful.

 

[Mythopoet]

Oops, I probably should have specified more details about my character/setting. Well, the setting is modern, and mostly revolves around the major cities in Western/Central New York--Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse...Buffalo is a very big center for American Catholicism, having been inundated by Irish, Italian, and Polish immigrants during the early 1900s. You're guaranteed to find a Catholic church on pretty much every street. Rochester, not as much, and Syracuse I'm not sure about.

Cool, I live in an area south of there that isn't quite as Catholic, but we've got a lot of Italian immigrants so there is still a pretty big Catholic presence. Though interestingly, it wasn't a Catholic from my own area I married, but an Irish Catholic from NYC that I dragged up here. I was non-denom/Evangelical when we met and married and it was our heated debates that led me to convert. Though to be fair it was meeting me and learning about my faith that spurred him on to rediscover his own somewhat lapsed faith at the time. So I made him a better Catholic and then he converted me. lol

My character, Will, is a Japanese-Irish vampire. (Weird, yeah.) His mother was a strong Catholic and the daughter of Irish immigrants. His dad was Japanese, but converted from Shinto to Catholicism when he married. Will still considers himself Catholic, but isn't sure where he stands faith-wise; I mean, he's a vampire. He's afraid his eternal soul has been corrupted.

EDIT: Also out of Thanks. Drat.

Is he committing sins because he's a vampire? Is he killing people or turning them into vampires or drinking their blood against their will? If not, he shouldn't have anything to fear. Unless he is using his power for evil, his soul should be fine and the Catholic Church would not reject him.

This is a fascinating discussion. I've had some Catholic and ex-Catholic characters in roleplays, and dealing with their faith or lack of it is interesting. The first character in question, a lycanthrope named Jason, was raised Catholic, but was excommunicated after coming out as gay when he was sixteen. For a few years afterward he still clung to the beliefs for the most part, especially the Commandments, though he didn't bother confessing his sins anymore. His father Casper, on the other hand, continues to be a very devout Catholic. When Jason came out, Casper was extremely opposed, and is the one who pushed for the excommunication. But he mellowed out after a few years, and even came to accept Jason's boyfriend (who is bisexual and also an ex-Catholic, interestingly enough) as dang near family. It helped that they both saved each other's lives a time or two, too. When Jason accidentally turned Casper into a lycanthrope, Casper initially struggled with reconciling his faith and the supernatural nature of his disease. Then he met a vampire who had been Catholic too, but after hundreds of years he became more of a conservative Lutheran, taking up the habit of confessing his sins directly to God rather than a priest. That was an interesting conversation to play out.

One of the things that bothers me in portrayals of the Catholic Church is how many people seem to think excommunications are a go to method of showing the Church's disapproval. This is not so. Excommunication is the Church's very last resort for trying to get a person to turn away from a life of sin that the Church believes will damn them. It's a lot like the parent who has tried everything else to get their child to turn away from a dangerous lifestyle and none of it has worked. So as a last resort, to try to get the child to see the gravity of their actions, the parent says, "If that is your choice, then you are no child of mine anymore. You are no longer welcome in my house."

The Church would not excommunicate someone just for coming out as gay. Not even at the parent's behest and certainly not when he was only 16. That a devout Catholic would request such a thing for his teenager is just not something I would find believable. That the Church would actually do it is impossible.

 

[Tom]

Is he committing sins because he's a vampire? Is he killing people or turning them into vampires or drinking their blood against their will? If not, he shouldn't have anything to fear. Unless he is using his power for evil, his soul should be fine and the Catholic Church would not reject him.

The thing is, he actually does drink human blood--I didn't want to go the "vegetarian vampire" route because I felt that a vampire that absolutely has to drink human blood to survive is a more interesting story to write. He tries not to kill or turn his victims, but sometimes it doesn't always work out. That's a big source of internal conflict in the story. I wanted to write about him struggling to keep his faith, while also knowing that he's committing a grave sin that he can't stop committing.

 

[Ireth]

One of the things that bothers me in portrayals of the Catholic Church is how many people seem to think excommunications are a go to method of showing the Church's disapproval. This is not so. Excommunication is the Church's very last resort for trying to get a person to turn away from a life of sin that the Church believes will damn them. It's a lot like the parent who has tried everything else to get their child to turn away from a dangerous lifestyle and none of it has worked. So as a last resort, to try to get the child to see the gravity of their actions, the parent says, "If that is your choice, then you are no child of mine anymore. You are no longer welcome in my house."

The Church would not excommunicate someone just for coming out as gay. Not even at the parent's behest and certainly not when he was only 16. That a devout Catholic would request such a thing for his teenager is just not something I would find believable. That the Church would actually do it is impossible.

Thanks for clearing things up, Tom. I wasn't aware of all that.

 

[Mythopoet]

The thing is, he actually does drink human blood--I didn't want to go the "vegetarian vampire" route because I felt that a vampire that absolutely has to drink human blood to survive is a more interesting story to write. He tries not to kill or turn his victims, but sometimes it doesn't always work out. That's a big source of internal conflict in the story. I wanted to write about him struggling to keep his faith, while also knowing that he's committing a grave sin that he can't stop committing.

Hmmm.... the fact that his survival depends on it (if there really are no other alternatives for him) may be enough to mitigate it as a sin.

 

[Devor]

A favorite saying of many Catholics I know, including myself, when confronted by a Protestant who believes drinking is wrong or at least generally frowned upon, is 'Jesus Himself drank wine.' Honestly, it's usually used to defend over-drinking as opposed to drinking in moderation (I've been guilty of that for sure)

Jesus not only drank, but he turned water into wine at a wedding where everyone there was already drunk. That's temperance for you!

^ That's another thing. Word choice can be another Catholic thing sometimes. For instance, Catholics are more likely to use words like "temperance" instead of "moderation," or "that seems unjust" instead of "unfair," or "charity" where others might use "compassion." "That doesn't seem very prudent." "Show a little fortitude." It's a shout-out to the seven virtues: Faith, Hope, Charity, Temperance, Justice, Prudence, and Fortitude. Honestly, they're often better words anyways.

 

[Trick]

Cool, I live in an area south of there that isn't quite as Catholic, but we've got a lot of Italian immigrants so there is still a pretty big Catholic presence. Though interestingly, it wasn't a Catholic from my own area I married, but an Irish Catholic from NYC that I dragged up here. I was non-denom/Evangelical when we met and married and it was our heated debates that led me to convert. Though to be fair it was meeting me and learning about my faith that spurred him on to rediscover his own somewhat lapsed faith at the time. So I made him a better Catholic and then he converted me. lol



Is he committing sins because he's a vampire? Is he killing people or turning them into vampires or drinking their blood against their will? If not, he shouldn't have anything to fear. Unless he is using his power for evil, his soul should be fine and the Catholic Church would not reject him.



One of the things that bothers me in portrayals of the Catholic Church is how many people seem to think excommunications are a go to method of showing the Church's disapproval. This is not so. Excommunication is the Church's very last resort for trying to get a person to turn away from a life of sin that the Church believes will damn them. It's a lot like the parent who has tried everything else to get their child to turn away from a dangerous lifestyle and none of it has worked. So as a last resort, to try to get the child to see the gravity of their actions, the parent says, "If that is your choice, then you are no child of mine anymore. You are no longer welcome in my house."

The Church would not excommunicate someone just for coming out as gay. Not even at the parent's behest and certainly not when he was only 16. That a devout Catholic would request such a thing for his teenager is just not something I would find believable. That the Church would actually do it is impossible.

Mythopoet is dead-on here but there is a worthwhile point to mention. There is something called Ipso Facto Excommunication that results from particular sins. The Catholic Crow may have mentioned it by it's formal name, Latae sententiae excommunication. No formal decision must be made, the sin itself causes immediate excommunication. There are a list of sins that cause this, many of which only apply to priests and bishops, but apostasy, a public denouncement or disaffiliation of ones faith is probably the most common among lay Catholics. Basically if a Catholic says, "Catholicism is wrong and I am not longer Catholic." they are actually correct simply by the act of saying it.

Hmmm.... the fact that his survival depends on it (if there really are no other alternatives for him) may be enough to mitigate it as a sin.

Very true, though is intention does not matter as much as his action. He may try not to kill or turn but when he does he would still need to confess it if he wants to be a Catholic in good standing. The only other thing that stood out to me is this: if you want him seen as a faithful Catholic he either needs a very good excuse for regularly missing Mass or he needs to go. Many Catholics seem foggy on this point but it is a grave sin to miss Sunday Mass without a very good reason. I would suggest you use something related to his 'disease' because grave illness is such a reason. Perhaps he can only attend night Masses?

Jesus not only drank, but he turned water into wine at a wedding where everyone there was already drunk. That's temperance for you!

^ That's another thing. Word choice can be another Catholic thing sometimes. For instance, Catholics are more likely to use words like "temperance" instead of "moderation," or "that seems unjust" instead of "unfair," or "charity" where others might use "compassion." "That doesn't seem very prudent." "Show a little fortitude." It's a shout-out to the seven virtues: Faith, Hope, Charity, Temperance, Justice, Prudence, and Fortitude. Honestly, they're often better words anyways.

So true! We do love our wedding celebrations too! (and the alcohol there).

It's funny you should say that. I used 'moderation' because I was talking to some non-Catholics. Had I been talking to all Catholics I would have definitely said 'temperance.' I feel like non-Catholics often misinterpret our usage of that word.

 

[TheCatholicCrow]

Perhaps he can only attend night Masses?

Midnight Mass it is!


It has been years since I last read them but I think that Catholicism came into play in Ann Rice's Interview with a Vampire. It depends on how you define vampire. Are you using the modern depiction (using it like a disease or blood addiction) or are you using it as a demonic figure (similar to Romanian strigoi)? If you're using it as the first then there is really no reason why the character would be prevented from going (or at least making an effort) but if its the latter it might make more sense that demons cannot enter the House of God or that his flesh burns in the presence of the Tabernacle...

You might consider adding a scene early on (when he transforms) where he decides to go to and find comfort in the church. When he enters the Church and blesses himself with Holy Water he might find that it burns/blisters his flesh. Perhaps he screams in pain and a nun / priest comes to his aid (asking if he's okay or needs prayer) ... perhaps in their hands is a rosary and when they reach out to touch him it burns him as well. He might even have a family heirloom rosary or scapular or crucifix necklace which he has worn since childhood and now finds that the Holy object burns him as well.

What a beautiful and agonizing scene this could be- his desire to connect to God but inability to do so. It would not read as Theologically accurate since (according to Christianity) anyone who wants to connect God should be free and able to do so ... but in terms of stacking the cards against your character this would definitely provide a hindrance.

Perhaps later on he would be able to counter his ... erm ... disabilities by keeping the crucifix in a glass vial (so it doesn't touch his skin), as it was previously suggested, night masses, Confession (probably by appointment since normal hours are usually in the day), counting prayers with stones or using his fingers and things like that ... perhaps even using a stick to flip the pages of his Bible if he's unable to touch the pages.

You could even include a priest character (maybe a family friend or his pastor since childhood) who keeps trying to get him to come back to the Church and abandon his sin/habit of drinking blood ("the only blood you need to drink is the Blood of Christ") ... you can draw attention to his inner turmoil between his desire for spiritual peace and to be in the Church, his guilt over his sins, and of course the desire to drink blood/kill.