How to write this kind of villain without uhh...writing this kind of villain. (if that makes sense)

[Naruzeldamaster]

Video Title: When you start a new game and meet a character you know is going to betray you.

I figured the prozd skit would be more accurate depiction of what I want to avoid than a four or five paragraph essay this time lol
And yes, this does happen quite often, at least in JRPGs, though it depends on the company that makes them. It's a trope that's used a LOT, because it works, when it's done well. but there are times where it fails and it's painfully obvious, like in the video above.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think, unless I'm missing a big cultural reference, here, it should be a matter of keeping him restricted a bit and not letting him do the things you would prefer he not do. Or you can flip the trope. If it's that popular a trope, enough readers will get it to keep them reading.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I think, unless I'm missing a big cultural reference, here, it should be a matter of keeping him restricted a bit and not letting him do the things you would prefer he not do. Or you can flip the trope. If it's that popular a trope, enough readers will get it to keep them reading.

These 'betrayal' villains (at least the ones that are groan worthily obvious) all have similar vibes to Lysanderoth in this skit here. Though some of them have a bit more tact and wait until a bit further into the game (Usually about the halfway point when things start 'heating up' plot wise ) before they start yapping about 'this world is imperfect, if only someone could wipe out it's imperfections bladi bladi blah' lol

I can think of one instance where this is done very well, to the point where you don't suspect a THING until it actually happens. That would be Zelos Wilder from Tales of Symphonia. There's no foreshadowing, no hints in his dialogue, nothing about him that seems 'off' it just happens in the last leg of the game (really like the final hour or so of pre-post game)

By flip the trope do you mean have the bad guy become good? or do you mean have a good guy become bad?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

By flip the trope do you mean have the bad guy become good? or do you mean have a good guy become bad?

I mean take the base trope and then twisting it. Doesn't have to be straight good > bad, you've got a nice chunk of spectrum available with this one. What I tend to do to see how I can twist and flip, I play "What If?" And then take it running.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I mean take the base trope and then twisting it. Doesn't have to be straight good > bad, you've got a nice chunk of spectrum available with this one. What I tend to do to see how I can twist and flip, I play "What If?" And then take it running.

I'm kind of doing that in one of my current projects. The god of darkness causes 'mischief' (as he calls it) which ranges from minor inconveniences like crops going bad to giant mutant rats rampaging dwarven mines. Thing is though, he's not 'just' doing them for the sake of being evil, since you know, he's the god of darkness. Ultimately if those giant rats would have burrowed deeper into the core of the planet they would have warped into even more dangerous monsters in the long run. And the one year of causing bad crops killed off a lot of the bad bugs that were harming the local crop life

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I like complicated. "Mischief" is a great word, but if you want to creep out an audience, bring the basic. "Time for fun." "A little... me time." You're going to have fun with this.

 

[Penpilot]

There are lots of different approaches you can take depending on the type of story you're telling and the tone you want. You can play with things, subvert them, or straight up lean into them. Like with most things, it's about execution. Look at Snape. He's used as a red-herring and a subversion during the course of the Harry Potter series.

If you're telling a farcical story, you can have the obviously evil betrayer act obviously evil and betray but nobody sees it except one person who constantly points it out, but is dismissed as being paranoid or bigoted.

In something more serious, you probably want to aim for subtlety and give them a very good motivation for doing what they're doing, not the simple I want power etc. In addition, don't have the betrayal feel inevitable. Put it on a scale and have it be teetering until they reach a point where the scale tips.

There's room for moustache twirlers, infinitely complex, 3D, betrayers, and everything in between. It's just about choosing the right one for your story and writing them well.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

There are lots of different approaches you can take depending on the type of story you're telling and the tone you want. You can play with things, subvert them, or straight up lean into them. Like with most things, it's about execution. Look at Snape. He's used as a red-herring and a subversion during the course of the Harry Potter series.

If you're telling a farcical story, you can have the obviously evil betrayer act obviously evil and betray but nobody sees it except one person who constantly points it out, but is dismissed as being paranoid or bigoted.

I don't know about farcical, but the story in question is a comedy at the forefront, though it takes itself seriously when the 'chips are down' as it were.

These kind of villains are tricky to write, because I've experienced them in games (and other media) and I have seen the comical failures along with the well done ones. The best example of comical failures is any time Pokemon tries to write a twist villain, literally they act like Lysanderoth in the prozd skit out the gate. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand Pokemon is for children (And that sadly it's not the 1990's anymore and I'm not a kid haha) but I do wish the writing had a bit more...meat on the bone, even if it was still written for kids. As an example Harry Potter is for Teens and it has a TON of meat on the bone, for it's age rating. So does stuff like the Percy Jackson series.

In something more serious, you probably want to aim for subtlety and give them a very good motivation for doing what they're doing, not the simple I want power etc. In addition, don't have the betrayal feel inevitable. Put it on a scale and have it be teetering until they reach a point where the scale tips.

There's room for moustache twirlers, infinitely complex, 3D, betrayers, and everything in between. It's just about choosing the right one for your story and writing them well.

I love a good moustache twirler, but you gotta be careful with those too. Go too far in the silly direction and they wind up cartoonish (which may be what you want, mind depending on the story) go too far in the other direction and they're just childish old men.

I do have a main villain for the story (Though it's more of a force of nature with a consciousness than a proper villain.) but there are some minor villains/rival characters with villainous behaviors at first. One in particular is the goofy 'haha I am invincible and you can't stop me' kind of villain, and he hams it up, until the character he's the antithesis of shakes up her strategy and seduces him. At first, her attempts are comically bad (to the point where the rest of the party are embarrassed watching, and so is he) but then an awkward encounter happens when the two are alone and she starts flirting proper, which obviously works.

 

[pmmg]

Is the question "how can I have a character that is a betrayer, without making it obvious they are a betrayer?"

I dont know that I can answer this in a context that is meant to be comedy, but it would seem you need to create believable reasons the character is helping the MC, and then believable reasons they would turn on them. Every character needs to reasons for things, goals they are trying to achieve, and reasons those things are hard to do.

Why would a villain pretend to be helping the MC at all? There must be something they want from doing so, otherwise, why the ruse?

Perhaps they are genuinely trying to help the MC, but something comes along that just changes their plans. Maybe their family is threatened, or maybe claiming the big magic jewel means something different to one than to the other, and the betrayer comes to realize it.

Anyway...I think, in order to have success pulling off the ruse, you will need convincing and genuine reasons they are helping the hero in the first place. And just write the story being true to the characters.