pmmg
Myth Weaver
Fantasy and Romance? Those cant go together....
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Humour me, can anyone explain different avenues of publishing to me?
- Thread starter Finchbearer
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- #publishing
Shifter and vampire romances are a genre unto themselves
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
It's all one giant genre called "things I won't read" heh heh. That could be similar to a Cliff Craven Jeopardy! question... I'll take "Things I won't Read for $500".
You won't read it. I don't particularly care for it. But shifter/vampire/fey romances are insanely popular amongst some of the Facebook groups I belong to.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
When the fantasy story is over, I'd not mind writing a Romance.
I hate to say, but many of my author friends from the past did find success in romance and erotica. I always found it to be low hanging fruit, and stuck with Fantasy, but....
I hate to say, but many of my author friends from the past did find success in romance and erotica. I always found it to be low hanging fruit, and stuck with Fantasy, but....
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
I was shooting for humor, but... I won't write anything I wouldn't read and I don't like fluff, it's the old English Lit guy in me combined with the stubborn artist. I'll treasure 1 reader saying while reading Sundering the Gods a second time—"I haven’t read text this closely since writing my college thesis on Jean Jacques Rousseau’s “Discourse on the Origin and Basis of Inequality Among Men” and its thematic representation in Cormac McCarthy’s “The Road”!"—more than I will some ranking on Amazon, heh heh. But to each their own, these days people reading at all is good, heh heh. Life's too short to write to the market, unless it happens to be the market you love. Fact is, I don't think I could write those books; I wouldn't finish before being bored to death.
- Thread starter
- #27
Finchbearer
Istar
Perhaps my writing is more in the fantasy genre - but there is solid romantic elements. This is an undercurrent theme to the entire plot, and so the romantic element is integral. Could it be marketed as romance - I don’t know.
Anyway it’s really nothing new - Goblin Market by Christina Rossetti is on the surface about goblins selling fruit at a market, but is filled with phallic double entendres, and this was written in 1895. It’s also really dark and clever in lots of ways…although not quite romance.
I have a personal hatred of vampire romance novels, but it is a insanely popular subgenre, thanks Twilight.
I’m not really interested in just giving people want they want to read, and I’m writing *exactly* what I’d want to read. Think Wolf Hall, or The White Queen…with magic.
Anyway it’s really nothing new - Goblin Market by Christina Rossetti is on the surface about goblins selling fruit at a market, but is filled with phallic double entendres, and this was written in 1895. It’s also really dark and clever in lots of ways…although not quite romance.
I have a personal hatred of vampire romance novels, but it is a insanely popular subgenre, thanks Twilight.
I’m not really interested in just giving people want they want to read, and I’m writing *exactly* what I’d want to read. Think Wolf Hall, or The White Queen…with magic.
BearBear
Archmage
- Thread starter
- #29
Finchbearer
Istar
So what kind of romance would you write pmmg - please say there would still be dragons?
pmmg
Myth Weaver
OMG...there would be dragons.
I think I would like to do a traditional romance, that follows the typical template of a romance, only I would probably be more complex, and add fantasy (cause I think any time you can mix genres, the affect multiplies). I'd probably stay out of the pure erotica range, but I would not be tame. I dont know... I dont have a story planned. But I would like the challenge of it. I do have some thoughts on what I think I could add, that I often find missing, but.... not enough to write them out.
I have some romances in my current big story, but they are not romance novel romances.
But...I have to finish the current one before I will free myself to do another. I have a SciFi floating around in my head. I think that one is two books.
I think I would like to do a traditional romance, that follows the typical template of a romance, only I would probably be more complex, and add fantasy (cause I think any time you can mix genres, the affect multiplies). I'd probably stay out of the pure erotica range, but I would not be tame. I dont know... I dont have a story planned. But I would like the challenge of it. I do have some thoughts on what I think I could add, that I often find missing, but.... not enough to write them out.
I have some romances in my current big story, but they are not romance novel romances.
But...I have to finish the current one before I will free myself to do another. I have a SciFi floating around in my head. I think that one is two books.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
Romance with a capital 'R' can be very specific. Don't mistake having romance with being a Romance. All of the different little subgenera of romance have rules and regulations, plot beats and whatnot that need to be hit. Be cautious with marketing to the Romance crowd without fitting into their expectations. In a sense, Romance and a few genres like Cozy Mystery are comfort food... you don't F with the recipe, heh heh.
Mad Swede
Auror
Much as it pains me to write this, that is equally true of a lot of fantasy writing too. If you're hoping to make a living from self-publishing then you need to find a formula which works and then stick to it whilst producing a lot of stories. Same as it was in the days of pulp magazines. It doesn't make for original writing.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
Nah, Romance is different. At least from what I tend to think of when thinking Fantasy. There are certainly heavily formulaic subgenres, but well, it really isn't dwelling upon.
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Prince of Spires
Auror
From what I've seen, Demesnedenoir is right. As an author if you want to sell, you don't write Romance. You write MM Shapeshifter Romance, or Enemies to Lovers Romance, or any of the other 100 very specific subgenres... Romance is a very broad genre, and authors who do well there usually write in a very specific subgenre which follows very specific tropes. And while it's the most popular genre out there, it's also the most competitive.
As for publishing in general, remember that there is a very big difference between publishing and selling. Anyone can publish anything on Amazon or any of the other online stores. It takes about as long as you need to fill out the different forms to set up and account and upload your manuscript. If you know what you're doing, it takes maybe an hour. If you don't, then maybe 2 or 3.
Publishing is the easy part. The hard parts are what happens before publishing (writing the novel and getting it ready for publication), and what happens after publishing (selling the damn thing). The before publishing part means you need to get the manuscript as polished as you can. You can pay for editing, but they won't write the book for you. And the better your writing is, the better the end result will be. Same with the cover. You can do one yourself (if you're an artist) or you can pay for one (though I'd say don't pay more than $400-500, unless you're getting very specific custom art made).
As for selling the thing, whole libraries have been written on how to do so. The reason for this is that no one knows exactly what works and what doesn't, and that what works for one person doesn't work for the next. Proof of this is that plenty of books from traditional publishers don't sell large amounts. Many don't make back their advance, and plenty don't sell more than a dozen copies. So don't believe anyone who tells you they have a maxic bullet for sales. The only way to guarantee sales is if they buy the books themselves. Also, what worked yesterday won't work today, and what works today will stop working at some point in the future.
As for publishing in general, remember that there is a very big difference between publishing and selling. Anyone can publish anything on Amazon or any of the other online stores. It takes about as long as you need to fill out the different forms to set up and account and upload your manuscript. If you know what you're doing, it takes maybe an hour. If you don't, then maybe 2 or 3.
Publishing is the easy part. The hard parts are what happens before publishing (writing the novel and getting it ready for publication), and what happens after publishing (selling the damn thing). The before publishing part means you need to get the manuscript as polished as you can. You can pay for editing, but they won't write the book for you. And the better your writing is, the better the end result will be. Same with the cover. You can do one yourself (if you're an artist) or you can pay for one (though I'd say don't pay more than $400-500, unless you're getting very specific custom art made).
As for selling the thing, whole libraries have been written on how to do so. The reason for this is that no one knows exactly what works and what doesn't, and that what works for one person doesn't work for the next. Proof of this is that plenty of books from traditional publishers don't sell large amounts. Many don't make back their advance, and plenty don't sell more than a dozen copies. So don't believe anyone who tells you they have a maxic bullet for sales. The only way to guarantee sales is if they buy the books themselves. Also, what worked yesterday won't work today, and what works today will stop working at some point in the future.
The Dark One
Auror
Was looking for a relevant thread and this is the closest to what I wanted to say... but to respond to the OP... this is a huge question.
I've been writing seriously nearly 30 years now so I persisted with the trad route and it eventually worked for me, but it took 15 years to get an acceptance. The main benefit of that very frustrating period was that I improved out of sight. It takes a lot in this shrinking trad market for someone to invest money in your work. On the downside, I was working for a long time and had no product out there.
Even now, after having had five novels published - two quite popular - I'm pretty much back to the start whenever I want to do something new. I have a "gentleman's agreement" to finish my current trilogy with another small publisher, but I'm also working on something new and different (and pretty commercial, I think) but I'm completely back to square one on that. Recently sent out two enquiry emails to agents - something I've not done for years - and quickly had two responses: one flag up, one flag down.
There are only 17 members of the Literary Agents Assn in Oz, so given the size of the slush pile it's a reason for celebration if they only want to read your ms (let alone try to get it published).
Things might be different elsewhere.
I've been writing seriously nearly 30 years now so I persisted with the trad route and it eventually worked for me, but it took 15 years to get an acceptance. The main benefit of that very frustrating period was that I improved out of sight. It takes a lot in this shrinking trad market for someone to invest money in your work. On the downside, I was working for a long time and had no product out there.
Even now, after having had five novels published - two quite popular - I'm pretty much back to the start whenever I want to do something new. I have a "gentleman's agreement" to finish my current trilogy with another small publisher, but I'm also working on something new and different (and pretty commercial, I think) but I'm completely back to square one on that. Recently sent out two enquiry emails to agents - something I've not done for years - and quickly had two responses: one flag up, one flag down.
There are only 17 members of the Literary Agents Assn in Oz, so given the size of the slush pile it's a reason for celebration if they only want to read your ms (let alone try to get it published).
Things might be different elsewhere.
- Thread starter
- #36
Finchbearer
Istar
This is funny. I do now in fact have a much better understanding of the different publishing avenues.
The Dark One
Auror
Pleased to announce that I've accepted an offer from an agent, today.
It is so hard to get an agent in Oz because there are only a handful. Mine happens to be one of the more high profile specimens so I'm quite delighted about it. She was very complimentary about my new ms and spent a long time today discussing the one rewrite she was recommending - and I have to say I was already aware that section could be better. Well done her.
But despite my happiness... she is the third agent I've had and the other two were pretty useless. Third time's a charm...
- Thread starter
- #38
Finchbearer
Istar
Congratulations 
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Perhaps the other two were there to teach you what you didn't need.
Hope it works out.
The Dark One
Auror
The thing about agents - and I'm so aware of this going into my third relationship - is that they (quite legitimately) spend most of their time pushing the clients that they KNOW will make them money.
I have no issue with that (despite being burned in the past). Maybe this time they'll push me?
I have no issue with that (despite being burned in the past). Maybe this time they'll push me?
