Instant Gratification - Ignoring the itch

[Twook00]

I write because I want to share my ideas with others. Unfortunately, as most of us know, those ideas can lose their luster pretty fast, especially once they've been shared. That, mixed with the ugly fact that I'm the kind of person who craves recognition, can be very dangerous for me as a writer.

So what happens? I write the first chapter, you know, just a sample, and I get super excited because I think it's the greatest thing I've ever written and that urge to share it with someone appears.

That urge can be overwhelming for me. Like an itch that you're not supposed to scratch but it's all you can think about.

Next thing I know, I've posted it somewhere and -- surprise! -- the magic is gone. Whether the readers love it or hate it, I've given it away and now I can't bring myself to finish.

How do you folks deal with this? Is it an issue for you? I'm sure there's some hard truth here that I already know deep down in side of me, staring me dead in the eye with furrowed brows and clenched fists because it's tired of being ignored. If so, please point it out.

 

[GeekDavid]

I write because I want to share my ideas with others. Unfortunately, as most of us know, those ideas can lose their luster pretty fast, especially once they've been shared. That, mixed with the ugly fact that I'm the kind of person who craves recognition, can be very dangerous for me as a writer.

So what happens? I write the first chapter, you know, just a sample, and I get super excited because I think it's the greatest thing I've ever written and that urge to share it with someone appears.

That urge can be overwhelming for me. Like an itch that you're not supposed to scratch but it's all you can think about.

Next thing I know, I've posted it somewhere and -- surprise! -- the magic is gone. Whether the readers love it or hate it, I've given it away and now I can't bring myself to finish.

How do you folks deal with this? Is it an issue for you?

I have decided to follow Dean Wesley Smith's advice and not post anything anywhere until it's ready to be released (emphasis in original).

1) Never talk about your story with anyone ahead of time.

Their ideas, unless you are very experienced, will twist your original story into partially their story.

2) For heaven’s sake, never, ever let anyone read a work-in-progress.

Totally stupid on so many levels I can’t even begin to address. If you want to collaborate, make sure you have a collaboration agreement, otherwise, keep your work to yourself until finished.

And wow does this apply to workshops. Never show a work-in-progress. Ever. Trust yourself for heaven’s sake and learn how to be an artist.

I may be guilty of breaking #1 here, but only to help me get inspiration... I very seldom reveal what choice I've made from all the helpful suggestions I get.

 

[Twook00]

I love this advice and I think it makes sense. It's following this advice that I struggle with. Once those ideas start moving and mixing inside my head, that chemical reaction takes place and the pressure to let them out begins to build.

Most would say "let them out on the page" but that rarely helps. I want to share them, and I know if I wait it could be months/years before I'll get to.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Those advice don't make sense to me at all, but it's probably related to how I go about writing my story. Maybe I'll learn along the line that this really was good advice and that I should have followed it. So far, it hasn't happened though.

I've told others about my story, there are people who know what will happen and how it'll end. I'm an outliner though, I've made all of the main story decisions already. I know what's going to happen and when. I tweak or add little details in the actual writing, but overall the big picture remains unchanged. It's my story and I'm telling it. I may let the ideas of others influence minor details, but the big picture is already set in stone and it won't change.

The second advice also goes against how I work. I've uploaded every single scene I've written to my wiki for anyone to read. They're all first drafts and they'll all be revised, cut or edited, probably multiple times before the story is out. I'm doing this because I want feedback on my writing and on my characters. I'm currently at about 50k words and about a third into the story I have planned. I recently re-read all I have written and while the writing at the start was quite embarrassing in places I also noticed a marked improvement in it over time and this was very encouraging.
I might have improved on my own simply by writing more, but I wouldn't have improved as much had I not asked others to read what I was doing (big thanks to everyone who did (especially Brian)).

I don't even get why he doesn't want you to show your work in progress, is he afraid someone will steal his ideas or what is so bad about it?

I can get how it would be important to keep your work secret if you were a skilled, experienced and well established author of some fame, but for me, a beginner with little to no clue what I'm doing it would be stupid not to share my work and ask for feedback.
I'd hate to finish Enar's Vacation in a vacuum and then sit there with a 150k novel that's full of rookie mistakes that I could easily have avoided if I'd just asked for help.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I do agree that retaining the passion after having shown something can be hard. I do try and correct the most glaring errors I've made and then I move on. The purpose of the feedback I'm seeking isn't to perfect the piece I've shown, it's to highlight and make me aware of the mistakes I've made so that I can learn from them and improve my writing for future scenes.

 

[Twook00]

I find that I post my writing for several reasons.

A. I want to improve the quality of the writing.

B. I want feedback from actual readers. Usually, the feedback determines whether or not this thing is worth my time. Is the idea good enough to pursue?

C. I just want to share it. I want someone to read it and enjoy it.

I think that second one can be a real deal killer for me though. If I post a scene or story and hear that the writing is fine and the story was "okay", there's that nagging feeling that this isn't good enough to be published or this won't have the impact on readers that I want it to. This leads to self-doubt which then leads to the recycle bin for my story.

 

[GeekDavid]

I don't even get why he doesn't want you to show your work in progress, is he afraid someone will steal his ideas or what is so bad about it?

I'll let him explain it himself (he's quite the prolific writer):

There are two sides of our brains. The creative side and the critical side.

The creative side has been taking in stories since the writer started reading, knowing how to put words together at a deep level. The critical side lags far, far behind the creative side, learning rules that some English teacher or parent forced into the critical mind.

The creative side is always a much better writer than the critical side. Always. It never switches, no matter how long you write.

Long term (20 years and up) professional writers have learned to trust that creative side and we tend to not mess much with what it creates for us. Of course, this lesson for most of us was learned the hard way, but that’s another long chapter for another book.

The idea is, when you let someone else analyze your work before it goes to print, you're letting the critical side take over, not the creative side.

He also goes on in far greater depth here (but I'm not going to excerpt it here, you just gotta go read it if you really want to. Fair warning, there are some swear words).

Above all, note the quote in my new, revised signature. If it works for you, do it.

 

[Philip Overby]

I get the advice about not sharing a work in progress myself, but I can see how it would vary from person to person. Svrtnesse's project is very specific so I don't think it really follows that kind of reasoning. However, every WIP I've shared with others soon becomes just another failed project because something is just not clicking with me and others. So I've vowed not to share anything with anyone until I'm completely finished and have the whole thing edited. Sharing a second or third draft doesn't even work for me anymore.

However, not talking about your project altogether, I guess I can get that too, and maybe that's an old school approach in some ways (I've heard Ursula K. LeGuin offer the same advice.) I don't think that works as well in this day in age because there are so many avenues to discuss what you're working on that it's hard to just keep it shut inside.

One thing I've decided, which may be a fun yet challenging project, is that starting in 2014 (while I'm editing my other two big novels) I'm going to do a 52 Week First Chapter project. Yes, that's right. 52 beginnings to 52 different novels. I'm going to share them on my blog and maybe some other places and see which one gets the most interest. First, I'll make a blurb about what I imagine the book to be about and then post only the first chapter. Even if I don't get all 52, it will definitely keep my "itches scratched" so to speak and give me all manners of ideas at the same time. I may not even share the beginnings and just post the blurbs. Haven't decided yet.

I did a 52 Week Short Story Challenge a while back and I believe I ended up with 26 stories in 26 weeks. Then, I did a 14 day challenge that put my grand total at 40 stories altogether. Not bad, I think, although some are in a better shape to be sent out somewhere. Four of those stories were actually published so far.

Anyhow, something like that may keep you occupied and still allow you to work on your current WIP. Sometimes just opening a file and putting all the cool stuff you can think of in it is enough (as Brandon Sanderson suggests.)

 

[Twook00]

I did a 52 Week Short Story Challenge a while back and I believe I ended up with 26 stories in 26 weeks. Then, I did a 14 day challenge that put my grand total at 40 stories altogether. Not bad, I think, although some are in a better shape to be sent out somewhere. Four of those stories were actually published so far.

I've considered trying a variation of this. Keep one big thing private while sharing short stories and snippets from other, less fleshed out pieces. This would hopefully keep the magic dust from spilling out of my big projects while allowing me to get my fix at the same time.

I'll definitely have to follow your blog next year.

 

[Philip Overby]

Totally. I think this has helped me significantly because I'm able to share stuff I'm not as serious about and still work on my main project as a more "secretive" deal. I'm a big person about challenges though. Even if you don't complete them, you can see a lot of progress at the same time.

 

[TWErvin2]

I write because I want to share my ideas with others. Unfortunately, as most of us know, those ideas can lose their luster pretty fast, especially once they've been shared. That, mixed with the ugly fact that I'm the kind of person who craves recognition, can be very dangerous for me as a writer.

So what happens? I write the first chapter, you know, just a sample, and I get super excited because I think it's the greatest thing I've ever written and that urge to share it with someone appears.

That urge can be overwhelming for me. Like an itch that you're not supposed to scratch but it's all you can think about.

Next thing I know, I've posted it somewhere and -- surprise! -- the magic is gone. Whether the readers love it or hate it, I've given it away and now I can't bring myself to finish.

How do you folks deal with this? Is it an issue for you? I'm sure there's some hard truth here that I already know deep down in side of me, staring me dead in the eye with furrowed brows and clenched fists because it's tired of being ignored. If so, please point it out.

Sharing work before it's ready to be shared can be a problem. Even as a member of a crit group, I edit and revise a chapter before submitting it for review. And the notion that taking advise too early can be a problem for some writers as you cannot write a story that appeals to everyone and if that is tried, it will be so much mush that appeals to no one, especially the writer.

I think the only answer is self-discipline, Twook00, if the urge to share causes a problem later in motivation to actually finish a project once even a part of it has been shared. You have to sit down and write chapter two, and then chapter three and four until you're at the end. And then, after that first draft, it's going to need revision and editing...multiple times.

As I see it, you'll have to find a way to work through this issue if you ever hope to have your stories reach the point where they're ready for publication (through a publisher or self-publishing) because, in the end, that's the way for many readers to have the chance to enjoy the story--especially for what it is (has become) as opposed to a rough first chapter suggesting what it some day might be (a part of).

 

[Twook00]

I think the only answer is self-discipline, Twook00, if the urge to share causes a problem later in motivation to actually finish a project once even a part of it has been shared.

There's that hard truth I was looking for. And I know you are right. It's like dieting and exercise. It's difficult, it's slow, and it hurts, but it's worth it in the end.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I'll let him explain it himself (he's quite the prolific writer):

The idea is, when you let someone else analyze your work before it goes to print, you're letting the critical side take over, not the creative side.

I recognize that this is an issue. It's a concern of mine as well. Am I letting the feedback I receive influence the way I write? I believe it definitely does. The question is if it's a bad thing and if so, how bad is it? It's something I'll be figuring out on my own, in the coming months and weeks, but I believe that recognizing that it may be an issue is a big step on the way towards dealing with it.

I also think that the lesson DWS mentions is one best learned the hard way. Taking the shortcut of listening to the advice will definitely cut down the time it takes to learn it, but I don't think that you'll fully understand the importance of it until you've tried it yourself. For now, this advice doesn't work for me. The way I work and the reason I write is completely at odds with it in all kinds of ways.
That doesn't mean that my way is right for everyone - heck, it may not even be right for me, but that's not going to stop me from trying until I actually realize it myself beyond doubt.

I very strongly believe in sharing your efforts with others though. What Phil suggests may be a great approach: share short stories that don't matter and polish your masterpiece in the shadows until it's ready to be released upon the world.

---

Now back to the topic - keeping the flame fueled.

At some point in the far distant past I learned something from a famous TV comedian. At the time he was writing his own shows for a TV series he was doing. A journalist asked him if he changed a lot of his scene on the set while shooting, like if he came up with something that was more funny, would he swap it for what he'd originally written.
The answer was a very firm no.
The explanation given was that while the new joke might seem funnier at the time, he couldn't be sure it really was. At the set he would be influenced by other people, by other incidents, he might be tired or hungry or in a bad/good mode. He might find the new joke funnier at the time, but he couldn't be sure it really was.
Instead, he stuck with the joke he'd originally written and polished to perfection. He knew what state he'd been in when he wrote it and he knew that it would work as he'd reviewed it and tried it and tested it several times. Changing that at the spur of the moment might work, but it might not and he wasn't willing to take the risk of changing it.

I'm trying to use the same approach in my writing of Enar's Vacation. I've got the grand plan laid out and I'm going to stick with it. If I post a 500 word excerpt from a scene asking about feedback on a technical aspect of the dialogue I will not let myself be influence by someone saying that they're not connecting with the character or that this particular scene lacks tension. Of course they're not connecting with the character - the reader of the finished product will have done that already (at least I fervently hope so). There may not be any tension in the scene because I've cut out those parts that generated the tension in it - as that wasn't what I wanted feedback on.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should keep your overarching goal in sight. No matter how much I respect those who give me feedback I still need to keep in mind that they've not read the entire story and they may not understand my vision.
Even if the feedback you receive isn't all that good and even if people aren't as excited about it as you are, you still have to stick to your guns.
Take your time, sit down and review your story. Decide what you want to do with it and where you want it to go. Write it down (even if just mentally). Review it a couple of times until you've ironed out all of the flaws you can think of and then stick with it. It's not going to be easy and it won't always be fun. But if you've gone over the story enough times that you're confident in it on your own - then why should you let the casual comments of someone who's read a small part of it stop you from continuing?

This won't work for everyone, but it works for me - at least for the time being.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I guess another way of seeing it is that I really do follow the advice. I make up and create the story in my head and I do that on my own. The writing of the actual book is just formalizing the presentation. The story is already done.

 

[GeekDavid]

I very strongly believe in sharing your efforts with others though. What Phil suggests may be a great approach: share short stories that don't matter and polish your masterpiece in the shadows until it's ready to be released upon the world.

There's one big problem I see with that.

Every hour you spend writing that story that "doesn't matter" is one less hour that you have to work on the masterpiece. Given that you only get a finite number of ours in each day and in your writing life, I'd rather not spend time writing something I never intend to do anything with except post somewhere for people to critique.

 

[Philip Overby]

I don't think there's any big problem with that. Not everything a writer makes is going to be their magnum opus. Writing sometimes has to be practice to get better so when it's time to write your "masterpiece" it doesn't come off like writing practice. It's true you only have a certain number of hours a day to write, but we're also spending precious time looking at Facebook, writing blogs, and commenting on internet forums. So I don't see the harm in actually spending time writing things that "may not matter." Maybe in the grand scheme of things, they don't seem like they matter. But when it comes time to truly write something you're putting all your passion into, it may pay off. Not everything can be a passion project. Sometimes just writing to exorcise some demons or whatever helps a lot.

Take it from someone who has done a lot "useless writing." It helps and it's fun. It's worth a try. If it doesn't work for you, by all means follow the path that works best.

 

[Svrtnsse]

[...] I'd rather not spend time writing something I never intend to do anything with except post somewhere for people to critique.

To me the point of posting something for critique is to receive that critique and learn from it. If you're not interested in that, then for sure writing irrelevant side stories will be a waste of time.

 

[GeekDavid]

To me the point of posting something for critique is to receive that critique and learn from it. If you're not interested in that, then for sure writing irrelevant side stories will be a waste of time.

But no one else writes the way I do, or the way you do. It goes back to DWS's first rule... if you take the advice of others, your story will slowly but surely become their story. And if you take the advice of a bunch of people, your story will become a stew with no single flavor predominating... in other words, blah.

 

[GeekDavid]

Authors might also consider the late great Robert A. Heinlein's rules for writing:

1) You must write.
2) You must finish what you write.
3) You must not rewrite unless to editorial demand.
4) You must mail your work to someone who can buy it.
5) You must keep the work in the mail until someone buys it.

Harland Ellison modified #3 to add, "...and then only if you agree."

In the Kindle era, #4 can be amended to include "self-publish" which would make #5 "keep it up for sale."

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I've learned not to share ideas or writing until I'm done. It's not that I don't want to put it out there and get feedback as soon as I can. There are other considerations.

First, I've come to understand when people ask me about what I'm writing, and I tell them, I inevitably wind up sounding like some raving lunatic. Fact is, I cant have a short conversation about such a huge piece of work. Verbal communication just won't do the concept justice. I can't describe the characters or plots orally. I certainly can't encompass the execution. After a few missed attempts at trying to talk about the stories, I finally realized it's far better to let the writing do the talking, and not my mouth.

Secondly, I don't share anything now that hasn't been written in full and received at least a revision or two. I don't want feedback on an incomplete piece. I want feedback on what I feel is really close to ready. Then, and only then, are readers valuable to me. Then they can spot the things I gloss over. Then they can contribute toward making my story better. Also, only then will I feel that validation that the story is good because I know I've put the work in.

The lone exception to this is when I'm working in collaboration with other writers. This is a new experience for me as I've always done only solo production, but it seems necessary to share ideas and writings as they progress towards completion. This is especially true since the stories written in collaboration depend on each other. The good thing is that talking to another writer is a bit different than the layman. We understand story better. We understand the need for revision and the value of another's eyes. So in this instance, I share idea by idea and chapter by chapter. Even so, I still revise once or twice before one of my partners gets a read.