BloodyHellSausage
Troubadour
Most fantasy seems to involve some sort of magic, so I was wondering if you consider it necessary for a fantasy story.
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Is magic necessary to write a fantasy story?
- Thread starter BloodyHellSausage
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Orc Knight
Auror
I don't think so. Fantasy is exactly that. Fantasy. Fantastical. Magic isn't necessarily needed for it. Perhaps a good use of not using magic in fantasy is Planetary Romance, like John Carter of Mars. Though you can have a completely fantastical world, if you can explain it in a way to suspend belief, you don't need magic. It's all in the story and making sense in the world. Magic can be as much flair as it is the entire lifeblood of the 'verse. Fantasy isn't all magic, elves and dwarves and dark lords in awesome spiked armor with spiky blunt weapons. To me, it's simply something that's fantastical to think about how they might work. The impossible (or very improbable) made possible in a kind of very entertaining thought exercise. Most the time.
And if you want to write with magic, do so. Or don't. Sure, we divide a bit into certain categories with the Fantasy media, but it is still under the umbrella, magic or not. So, my more then two cents on it. Maybe it's a half pence thought.
And if you want to write with magic, do so. Or don't. Sure, we divide a bit into certain categories with the Fantasy media, but it is still under the umbrella, magic or not. So, my more then two cents on it. Maybe it's a half pence thought.
I think there needs to be something about your world and your story which can only be told with all the worldbuilding and background that goes into the setting. That's usually the magic, or some "magical" physics-breaking aspect of your world, but it doesn't always have to be.
The thing is, all that worldbuilding has a cost. It creates a distance that you have to work to overcome with your reader. If a story can be told in a modern or historical setting, it would probably be stronger if you told it that way.
The thing is, all that worldbuilding has a cost. It creates a distance that you have to work to overcome with your reader. If a story can be told in a modern or historical setting, it would probably be stronger if you told it that way.
I cannot think of a fantasy story that I enjoyed that did not include magic.
CupofJoe
Myth Weaver
First define what is Magic? 
There is that Arthur C Clarke quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
In my hubris I'd tweak the wording to be "Any technology sufficiently not understood is indistinguishable from magic"
I don't think there has to be magic as in fireball spells but there has to be something that isn't of-this-world.
There is that Arthur C Clarke quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
In my hubris I'd tweak the wording to be "Any technology sufficiently not understood is indistinguishable from magic"
I don't think there has to be magic as in fireball spells but there has to be something that isn't of-this-world.
Ruru
Troubadour
It really does come to story I think (technical definitions of fantasy categories aside I guess). A fantasy world based on beasts and incarnate gods as an example. Like others have said here, it just needs to be fantastical, other-worldly.
Then comes your definition of 'magic', like cupofJoe said. What about stretching the realms of chemistry? Is that magic? Is magic only spells or do you refer to all forms of 'power'? By that point, what about politics? (heh).
For me, magic doesn't make it fantasy, the world does, at least to an extent.
Then comes your definition of 'magic', like cupofJoe said. What about stretching the realms of chemistry? Is that magic? Is magic only spells or do you refer to all forms of 'power'? By that point, what about politics? (heh).
For me, magic doesn't make it fantasy, the world does, at least to an extent.
Even if you do put magic in, it doesn't have to be the arcane spellcaster trope of a wizened old man reading from a spellbook and making things burst into flame.
In my world, I have fragments of a shattered moon, imbued with the power of the gods being implanted into people's skin. This gives them access to a fragment of divine power, controlled by their will. Mostly it allows a low level of elemental control, but with the emotional associations of those elements too. It's not magic in the traditional sense, but it is fantastical. I won't be calling it "magic" in the story though!
In my world, I have fragments of a shattered moon, imbued with the power of the gods being implanted into people's skin. This gives them access to a fragment of divine power, controlled by their will. Mostly it allows a low level of elemental control, but with the emotional associations of those elements too. It's not magic in the traditional sense, but it is fantastical. I won't be calling it "magic" in the story though!
No, of course it isn't. Just take a look at the body of existing fantasy literature.
Magic is very often seen and explained in Fantasy stories.
Even then, it's not necessary for all Fantasy stories to feature some type of Magic. I think that what really defines Fantasy is that we tell stories about other worlds, and especially about worlds were wonderful and unrealistic things exist.
Our stories are Fantasy with or without a Magic system.
Even then, it's not necessary for all Fantasy stories to feature some type of Magic. I think that what really defines Fantasy is that we tell stories about other worlds, and especially about worlds were wonderful and unrealistic things exist.
Our stories are Fantasy with or without a Magic system.
claramcalister
Scribe
Personally I really, really enjoy Fantasy with magic. But that's a personal preference; I've read- and really enjoyed- several fantasy books that don't have any magic at all. So I don't think it's necessary for a good one. Just that it's popular in those settings.
Corwynn
Troubadour
I think to qualify as fantasy, a story needs to either involve supernatural elements or a constructed world, but not necessarily both. If you want to tell stories in an invented universe that does not have magic, then by all means do so. You don't have to shoehorn in elements that you aren't particularly interested in just because "it's the thing to do".
I agree, I think--depending on what you mean by constructed world. If I use the real world, but make it so that native Americans had steam technology when Columbus arrived, I think that's still fantasy. The question is how much you have to change the real world for it to be fantasy.
Corwynn
Troubadour
I would classify a story like that as alternate history, or maybe sci-fi. But now that I think about it, the divisions between genres can be pretty arbitrary. I guess the distinction is more a matter of convention than a hard rule. My point is that you don't need magic in fantasy any more than you need space travel in science-fiction.
Mythopoet
Auror
This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only thing necessary for fantasy is something, anything that is distinctly "other" to our world. Magic is only an example of something that could be "other", but then again sometimes magic doesn't even feel "other", it depends on how the writer uses it. Sometimes the "magical" or "supernatural" elements are kept in the background and described so vaguely that I can't even tell whether or not I think they feel "other". But it's that "otherness" that I personally am looking for in fantasy. Something that makes me feel like I am being taken out of the world I know and transported to some other place where dreams are possible.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
^I think this is closest to my definition.
I think there has to be something fantastical or impossible by our world's standards, or unlike what's in our reality, even if it doesn't take the form of a "magic system" necessarily.
That knocks out some very good fantasy on the shelves under "Fantasy" at the local bookstore
Mythopoet
Auror
That knocks out some very good fantasy on the shelves under "Fantasy" at the local bookstore
As I said, this is my personal definition. Books that do not fit this definition do not satisfy my desire for fantasy. And yes, there are many popular books that do not satisfy me as fantasy. And yes, Gormenghast is one of them.
As I said, this is my personal definition. Books that do not fit this definition do not satisfy my desire for fantasy. And yes, there are many popular books that do not satisfy me as fantasy. And yes, Gormenghast is one of them.
Gormenghast may still fit in the definition. I'm thinking of something like Guy Gavriel Kay's "The Lions of Al-Rassan." You may like that one. It's a great book. Also included would be books like The Company, by KJ Parker. Or maybe just about anything by Parker--I haven't read all his work.
Mythopoet
Auror
Gormenghast may still fit in the definition. I'm thinking of something like Guy Gavriel Kay's "The Lions of Al-Rassan." You may like that one. It's a great book. Also included would be books like The Company, by KJ Parker. Or maybe just about anything by Parker--I haven't read all his work.
Well, I can say with certainty that Gormenghst didn't satisfy me as a fantasy novel. And I don't view any element of it as "distinctly other". Odd, yes. Disturbing, yes. "Other", no.
I have read The Lions of Al-Rassan. It was an ok book. Also did not satisfy me as fantasy. Tigana, on the other hand, did satisfy me as fantasy. There were distinctly "other" elements in it.
I am not familiar with KJ Parker or any of his books. So I don't know.
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