Did I make my magic system boring?

[dollyt8]

I'm currently planning a novel called Ashbranded, which I'll start writing officially in November. I already have the magic system planned out. The consequence of using too much magic for the Ashbrand society is losing all feeling/emotions and "turning to ash." While it might be described as losing their souls, there's not really a spiritual aspect to it. It's just a loss of emotion, but since that includes emotions like guilt and love, many of the ashbranded who "turn to ash" become menaces to society. Others simply waste away in silence, and others can decide to do good things even though they have no emotions about it whatsoever. My question is this: is that kind of consequence much more boring than actually losing ones' soul to the devil and turning outright evil or insane as a result of using magic?

My thinking when creating this system was that essentially losing ones' soul to the devil is too generic and has been done too many times. I'm guessing losing all emotion may have been done too, but in my thinking it added a bit more complexity because the outcome is uncertain. But what are your thoughts?

 

[Queshire]

Ha! You just tripped over one of my personal writing bugbears. I'm not a big fan of magic having costs like that to begin with, but if you do decide to have one then losing your emotions is a neat take.

 

[WTFisReality]

If enough focus is channeled into your execution, PERHAPS, you'll hit your mark. I wish you luck in your journey for originality; a noble pursuit indeed.

 

[Skyfarer]

Ah, you're fine. Something being more fantastical doesn't inherently make it more interesting. And losing your emotions is hardly as boring a cost to magic use as you think. Remember, it's all in the execution. Don't be too concerned with making exciting ideas.

 

[dollyt8]

Ah, you're fine. Something being more fantastical doesn't inherently make it more interesting. And losing your emotions is hardly as boring a cost to magic use as you think. Remember, it's all in the execution. Don't be too concerned with making exciting ideas.

Thanks for your input!

 

[ThinkerX]

The costs in my magic system are a steal from Andre Norton's 'Witch World' with a few extras thrown in.

First, magic in my worlds is mostly 'enhanced psi.' The majority of the 'spells' are tweaks or combinations of ESP, Remote Viewing, 'Faith Healing/Metabolic Magic,' Telekinesis, 'Charm/Hypnotism,' Pyrokinesis, and Teleportation. Summoning spells, Illusions, and Rune magic are special cases.

A wizard's ability to work magic is tied to their Ethos. Going against that Ethos can result in their PSI ability fading or vanishing altogether.

'White' or 'Good' wizards use their magic to heal, educate, or help others without directly expecting payment. Obtaining payment for other services is fine, as is belonging to a guild or circle offering a stipend. Wizards of those Ethos will use their magic to Kill/injure only in extremes.

Red or Neutral wizards are scholars obsessed with learning new lore - the classic reclusive wizard in a tower or cave. If their project demands it, they can use harmful magic or cast spells for money to finance a project.

Power Seekers are usually, though not always evil. These are self-centered wizards who use their magic to enthrall or enslave others. Some see their subjects as disposable. Others genuinely believe those people need their guidance/protection.

Dedicated are purpose-driven militants - defend the Empire or banish demons. These wizards take oaths that allow them to use harmful magic if it aligns with their purpose.

Dabblers know a few spells but are borderline magicians at best and are unlikely to progress further. They tend to have knacks like a superb sense of direction, good at charming animals, or semi-magical sleight of hand.

 

[SwiftieDaughterOfAthena13]

I recently read a writing tip that advised, "Don't aim for originality. It's almost impossible to achieve. Aim for authenticity." Every idea can be boring unless you add emotion and conflict. I think that it's a great idea! If you look at some of the symptoms of psychopaths/sociopaths, one of them is a lack of empathy. If you were to disguise a psychopath as a charming and friendly character, the plot twist would be amazing, even if classic! I would advise you to go for it!

 

[Devor]

I like it. That’s a tone, though. Wizards gradually become sociopaths. But, it makes me things of where that rule leads. What if I become a mage to do one spell and stop? What if they passed laws that limit the practice of magic and require mages to be routinely evaluated? Can their wands be taken away from them after too many spells? Can we force an enemy wizard to use more spells, lose the urge for vengeance as he turns to ash, and then reason with him to flip sides? There’s tons you can do with this well beyond the obvious.

 

[barrowyarrow]

If you as the writer are having fun with it then it's not boring.

 

[dollyt8]

You all are the best! I genuinely wasn't expecting this many replies.

Queshire thanks for your input!

WTFisReality I appreciate your take. Also, I think I may have worded my post badly; looking to make the story more original was far from the only reason I decided to take this particular direction with my magic, because I'm well aware to write something actually original is virtually impossible. I just personally got very tired of the magic = losing your soul to the devil trope, but that doesn't mean it can't be done well.

SwiftieDaughterOfAthena13 You just gave me even more ideas. You're the best; thank you!

Devor All of this is super helpful! In the case of this story, there is a magical tattoo called an Ashbrand that gradually burns down to show the status of an individual turning to ash. It is applied to all of the Ashbranded upon their 20th birthday. But you brought up a lot of really good ideas, so thank you!

 

[Rexenm]

Or when you lose your soul, it gets trapped in a book, and the machine that holds such books, necessary for magic, holds the key to your freedom?

Maybe the trope of transmutation of magic isn’t overdone yet, thus considered boring.

 

[Finchbearer]

It has lots of parallels to real life, so in that sense I think it’s good - it’s the weaving it into the story that is the challenge.

 

[Diana Silver]

If you were to disguise a psychopath as a charming and friendly character, the plot twist would be amazing, even if classic!

No no, flip this around! Take an ashened character whom everyone assumes must be a heartless villain, and make them turn out to be the most kind and righteous person in your story who completely saves the day. (Or in fact, do both ;D )

 

[Mad Swede]

I'm currently planning a novel called Ashbranded, which I'll start writing officially in November. I already have the magic system planned out. The consequence of using too much magic for the Ashbrand society is losing all feeling/emotions and "turning to ash." While it might be described as losing their souls, there's not really a spiritual aspect to it. It's just a loss of emotion, but since that includes emotions like guilt and love, many of the ashbranded who "turn to ash" become menaces to society. Others simply waste away in silence, and others can decide to do good things even though they have no emotions about it whatsoever. My question is this: is that kind of consequence much more boring than actually losing ones' soul to the devil and turning outright evil or insane as a result of using magic?

My thinking when creating this system was that essentially losing ones' soul to the devil is too generic and has been done too many times. I'm guessing losing all emotion may have been done too, but in my thinking it added a bit more complexity because the outcome is uncertain. But what are your thoughts?

I think I'd ask you why it is that excessive use of magic leads to loss of emotions? It may be a good idea, but I would probably want to work out why it happened before running with the concept. That way I could develop the characters a bit more, perhaps have some who gain the insight into what might happen and stop using magic, or characters who try to work out how to get back when they realise the price they have paid.

 

[JBCrowson]

Having gone through several bouts of major depression over the years, characterised primarily by avolitional athymia, the experience of knowing you no longer feel emotion was probably the most difficult part of the illness. If you can find a way to express that inner desolation your cost of magic will be anything but boring.

 

[dollyt8]

Having gone through several bouts of major depression over the years, characterised primarily by avolitional athymia, the experience of knowing you no longer feel emotion was probably the most difficult part of the illness. If you can find a way to express that inner desolation your cost of magic will be anything but boring.

Thanks so much for your perspective! I actually wrote this concept after having some bad experiences with medications that really messed with my emotions - not that it's the same thing, but it inspired me anyway. A big part of the novel is about the main character's fear and loneliness as he goes through the experience of losing his emotions.

I think I'd ask you why it is that excessive use of magic leads to loss of emotions? It may be a good idea, but I would probably want to work out why it happened before running with the concept. That way I could develop the characters a bit more, perhaps have some who gain the insight into what might happen and stop using magic, or characters who try to work out how to get back when they realise the price they have paid.

In the story it's sort of looked at as "soul pyromancy", basically burning up part of one's soul to perform magic, leading to the soul "turning to ash." However, in the story "soul" is not so much about the spirit as it is related to feelings and emotion; i.e., the "heart" of the person. Hence the loss of emotion over time. In many systems emotion "fuels" magic, and in this one, like all types of fuel, the fuel burns up/runs out over time. Hope that makes sense. Also there are characters who desperately tried to find a way to "rekindle" that fire, but there doesn't initially seem to be a way to revitalize the ash.

Anyway, thanks for your input and your ideas!

 

[pmmg]

is that kind of consequence much more boring than actually losing ones' soul to the devil and turning outright evil or insane as a result of using magic?

My thinking when creating this system was that essentially losing ones' soul to the devil is too generic and has been done too many times. I'm guessing losing all emotion may have been done too, but in my thinking it added a bit more complexity because the outcome is uncertain. But what are your thoughts?

Why is the choice this, or losing ones soul to the devil? I find that a strange way to put it. I've seen where magic corrupts, but lost to the devil is not all that common in today's world.

It is not boring on its own. That all comes to presentation. It's different, and that should be a draw if nothing else is.

Given that soul is usually separate from emotional centers, and here they are used with an overlap, I feel there is a lot of room to play with what it even means to have a soul, and why they might be so linked. It would seem to me, that so long as one exists, there ought to be a belief that the effects of ash can be reversed, even is no one knows how. Though...I would expect churches to have an opinion on that.

 

[Finchbearer]

I read a book recently where the spirits of criminals could eat food but it all turned to ash in their mouths, as a sort of punishment I suppose. If the magic being overused means that the consequence is that emotions and feelings are dulled and dwindled, then there needs to also be strong reasons for using the magic too.

 

[dollyt8]

Why is the choice this, or losing ones soul to the devil? I find that a strange way to put it. I've seen where magic corrupts, but lost to the devil is not all that common in today's world.

It is not boring on its own. That all comes to presentation. It's different, and that should be a draw if nothing else is.

Given that soul is usually separate from emotional centers, and here they are used with an overlap, I feel there is a lot of room to play with what it even means to have a soul, and why they might be so linked. It would seem to me, that so long as one exists, there ought to be a belief that the effects of ash can be reversed, even is no one knows how. Though...I would expect churches to have an opinion on that.

Thank you for your input! I think maybe I worded the original post badly; what I'm really talking about is the idea of "magic results in corruption" (not necessarily literally being sold to the devil) vs. what I felt like was more nuanced where magic results in an absence of emotion. As to the "soul" terminology, I'm not really sure how better to phrase this to show I'm really describing feelings. My goal was basically to avoid making it overly "spiritual" or mystical, not so much to redefine what a soul is if that makes sense. It's not even necessarily about morality. Soul pyromancy may also be the wrong descriptor since it's purely about burning up emotions. Still, for example for the back of book blurb: "In the volcanic city of Ashwind Cairn, every spark of magic comes with a cost. For Dare, an ashbinder with a rare connection to the ash that fills their world, that cost may be his very soul. When he’s chosen to succeed the ruthless High Volcaryn, Dare is thrust into a deadly game of politics and power - one that could burn away everything he holds dear." saying "that cost may be his very emotions" sounds a lot weaker to me. Maybe the blurb currently misrepresents the story though.

As far as the effects being able to be reversed, it's not revealed until later in the story, but there is a way to reverse it. I didn't see it as a religious thing because again it's not talking about someone's soul coming back into their body or coming back to life or even turning from darkness to light; it's just about emotions being a fuel that's been burned out vs. more fuel being poured in. I just need to find a better and more clear way to describe it

 

[pmmg]

Sounds like the results of feeding addictions.