Living the Research

[Ireth]

I'd just like to add that, even if you do all the research (from books or hands-on) that you are physically and mentally and financially capable of, there are still things you're going to get wrong. Most Writers Are Human, after all. And human = fallible. A lot of things that people in older eras would have considered common sense were never written down, and thus lost to time. Not to mention all the libraries that have been burned down in crusades and such. Basically, nobody's going to have 100% knowledge of everything.

 

[Malik]

I know you don't like/respect pulp, but come on...some DO research. Without research, how do you write good fantasy or good historical fiction or fiction in general?

You don't. Which is my point.

I'm not saying all. You know who I'm talking about, here.

It's not just the pulps, either. I read or see stuff pretty much daily from major-league authors, and directors who have technical consultants, and THEY get it wrong. Laughably wrong. Heck, I'm sure I got some things wrong. But I'm hoping I got enough of them right to earn a pass.

I'm not saying everyone has to write hard fantasy; there's a place for fluff. And that's fine. It's just not my thing, and I think if you really want to endure you need to dig.

 

[Nimue]

This all seems like a garnish to a writer's life, not substance. Not a requisite. Do SCA, horseback riding, live in a cabin in the mountains...if you enjoy it. Maybe along the way you'll pick up good details for your books, but a fun theme vacation won't hand you a silver bullet to make your writing better, or even more engaging. Seems to me that sometimes investing your life into experiences tangential to your story could result in too much detail or pendantry, instead of being guaranteed to boil down to one or two brilliant details. As Svrt said, experience must also be well-expressed. It's not inherently more valid or important to the story just because you've done it.

It seems condescending to say people aren't trying hard enough if they don't go out and live their books. What about affordability and access? What about simply choosing not to spend your life and your vacation chasing after some shade of an imaginary experience...instead of actually writing and practicing craft?

I find a great deal of inspiration and detail in a walk in the woods, a visit to the museum, a good documentary. Harder to brag about, I suppose, but valuable nonetheless.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Writing from experience is a rather depressing subject for me, since it typically comes back to "write but nothing will be any good because you're too little"...or that's what I get from it.

 

[Russ]

Big sigh.

I'll ask again; am I inherently unqualified to write because I CAN'T go out and have these experience, at least not at this point? No time, no money...

No. But let's be honest, you are less qualified than someone who has.

I posted this question not too long ago (though mine was oriented more on emotional experiences) and the consensus was that you totally could BS everything. (To a point.) But...then there are people that say no, you have to go out and do it. Which is a depressing prospect for a broke teenager.

I don't think you can BS everything. I think you can shrink the lack of experience gap by very good research or having an open mind, or good observation skills but I don't think you can BS everything. IF that was the real consensus I am disappointed in the group that reached it.

Also, how do you research riding a dragon? This world doesn't have horses, but it does have dragons.

While you cannot experience riding a dragon you can research what it might be like to ride a dragon and reason out, or even calculate that it would be like riding a dragon. For instance, if it matters, you can figure out the speed of your dragon and find out what it is like for a human to fly through the air at that speed in say an ultra light aircraft etc. But no one is suggesting that you can experience what it is like riding a dragon. That is why they call it speculative fiction.

I have no interest in hands-on, personal research of what it's like to give birth, have a limb sawn off while conscious, get a cut stitched up with no anesthesia, be whipped bloody, or eat absolutely any nasty thing raw (but grubs and insects especially). More commitment needed maybe? Heeheehee.

These are kind of absurd examples are they not? I was going to assume you were joking but then I read the next post. There are lots of ways to learn about what it like to be an amputee etc, but no one is suggesting you try it out.

The "you have to go out and experience your research" idea is kinda deficient in several ways. I'm all for it if you're able, but some of us aren't...

Since you want to try and take a legalist approach to this issue let's see if I can put something in quotes that might work for you:

"Experiencing what you are writing about can make you better at writing about it."

I think the underlying purpose of the discussion is to encourage people to experience things they are writing about to make them better writers. It is also to get people to think about how important writing is to them, and what level of commitment they have to it. Now you may have 700 reasons you can't experience something in your writing, but I don't think we should discourage others from doing it, nor is a post encouraging people to do such research really a call to post excuses why you can't.

It is difficult to admit that someone is in a better position to do something we care passionately about, but unrealistic not to do so.

Off topic rant: making excuses or pondering what you cannot do is not going to make you a better writer or a better person. Let me make an analogy. At my advanced age I still play soccer. There are guys who are faster than me on the pitch. In fact most guys on the pitch are faster than me. Now I can make excuses about age, how many hours I have to work, my bad ankles, etc but they would still blow by me on the way to the goal. Instead of making excuses I should do one of three things: 1) work on getting faster, 2) work on doing things as an individual player to reduce the impact of their speed advantage or 3) work on doing things as a team that help compensate for my lack of speed. So lots of variables to work with if you are committed and bring the right mind set. You might consider trying that approach to understanding your characters experiences.

Side note on amputation: there are lots of ways to learn about what it is like to suffer an amputation without doing it. Some more academic or clinical, some more personal. As a lawyer I have represented many people who have suffered catastrophic injuries and have learned a huge amount both academically and personally what it is like to suffer an amputation, spinal cord injury or a brain injury. But despite having spent years studying this conditions and hundreds perhaps thousands of hours talking with people who have sustained them I retain the humility to admit that I would not understand the experience. Does that mean I would not write about amputations? No. It means I would write about them with respect and cautiously knowing the limitations of my abilities. No you cannot BS everything.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I'd also like to add that your research is only as good as your writing.

A person who HASN'T experienced something might be able to write *better* about that thing than someone who HAS...because they're all around a better writer.

The craft is the foundation of it all. Some would disagree and say the research is the foundation...but there's no point in research if you can't apply it with skill.

 

[Malik]

This all seems like a garnish to a writer's life, not substance. Not a requisite. Do SCA, horseback riding, live in a cabin in the mountains...if you enjoy it. Maybe along the way you'll pick up good details for your books, but a fun theme vacation won't hand you a silver bullet to make your writing better, or even more engaging. Seems to me that sometimes investing your life into experiences tangential to your story could result in too much detail or pendantry, instead of being guaranteed to boil down to one or two brilliant details. As Svrt said, experience must also be well-expressed. It's not inherently more valid or important to the story just because you've done it.

It seems condescending to say people aren't trying hard enough if they don't go out and live their books. What about affordability and access? What about simply choosing not to spend your life and your vacation chasing after some shade of an imaginary experience...instead of actually writing and practicing craft?

I find a great deal of inspiration and detail in a walk in the woods, a visit to the museum, a good documentary. Harder to brag about, I suppose, but valuable nonetheless.

Also, this. This is all part of it.

My dream has always been to create a high fantasy series so detailed and so believable that one day a fan would put a gun to my head demanding that I give them the location of the portal to it. That has been the guiding principle in all of this since I was about DOTA's age.

I had a headstart on this when I began writing, because I'm insane. I once rode my bike off the roof of my house. It's a lifestyle. (Also, my parents were nuts, which helped. I was raised in a traditional Blackfeet household, which is roughly analogous to being raised by Klingons. They packed me up and down trails in a cradleboard, FFS. I could follow a bloodtrail before I could ride a bike.)

Is it the only life for a writer? No. But I can't recommend it strongly enough. It has been one hell of a ride. I'm better for it, and so is my writing.

 

[Chessie]

I'd also like to add that your research is only as good as your writing.

A person who HASN'T experienced something might be able to write *better* about that thing than someone who HAS...because they're all around a better writer.

The craft is the foundation of it all. Some would disagree and say the research is the foundation...but there's no point in research if you can't apply it with skill.

I don't believe anyone here is saying that research is the foundation. And hell, not even craft in some regards. Why do I say that? Because I...inhale...know authors who make a killing off their books, who are on best-seller lists, have a respectable fan base...and can't write worth a damn. Story trumps structure every friggin' time. Writing books isn't all about having beautiful words laced together. There needs to be a story displaying an emotional journey, changes within the characters that's also expressed outwardly, a believable and entertaining setting that matches plot, character, theme, oh and etc. Being a good or better writer really isn't the end all be all.

I understand that you love to write and that is your dream. I was the same way at your age, hell, since I could form complete sentences. But right now, your writing isn't going to reflect the depth that it will when you're older, like in your 30s, 40s, 50s. Malik is right when he mentions the age of fantasy writers that are all older. With maturity comes a depth of skill and understanding of life that really helps you just write better characters and stories in general. Themes have a lot to do with that, for example.

Right now yes, you should be writing whatever you want. Study story structure, study outlining, plot points, how to pants better, the CRAFT. That is what you have time for, not stressing over there are certain situations you understand or not. I think the main problem for a long of young writers is that they have good ideas that they aren't qualified to write due to lack of life experience. That's not a bad thing. It's just where you are in life. Sometimes you express frustration that we all pat you on the head and say what a darling teenager you are. No. Not the case at all.

 

[skip.knox]

I would encourage any writer to open his or her eyes, ears, heart, mind. Grab life with both hands, by all means!

But never let anyone tell you that you are less of a writer for every vision, sound, experience you have not yet seen, heard, experienced. No one has seen it all. I'm 65 years old. I'm certainly not going to suggest you grow old in order to understand how to write old people. Stay young. The important thing ... well, Peter Weiss said it better:
The important thing
is to pull yourself up by your own hair
to turn yourself inside out
and see the whole world with fresh eyes

That can be done by any one, at any time.

 

[Russ]

I'd also like to add that your research is only as good as your writing.
.

This is entirely true. One can have all the experiences in the world but if I do not have the technique to communicate them then they will do me no good as a writer.

 

[Heliotrope]

Hmmmm, interesting.

I often think of this as being similar to "method acting". Some actors swear by it, often living "in character" for months. If the character works at a coffee shop, the actor gets a job at a coffee shop. If the character lives in the streets, the actor will live in the streets. These actors don't drop character, even when the scene is cut and everyone else is having a break.

Some say that the method acting of the Joker is what killed Heath Ledger.

At any rate, I'm about 60/40 on this for it.

My book is called "Blackbeard Sleeps in the Subway" and my character spends a lot of time with the homeless in the subway. So yeah, I have spent some time with the homeless in my community, talking to them. Sitting with them. Observing them. Interviewing them about their childhoods.

And yeah, I get a TON of valuable information that makes my characters feel more "real". From strange ticks and behaviours to interesting tattoos and scars, to speech patterns and back stories, my books is definitely richer for the experience.

My book is set partly in modern day New York and partly in ancient Maya, so yeah, guess where I'm going on holiday this year at Spring break...

One of my characters is based off my old Grandad, who was a British Navy man during world war two and has always been very open about life at sea. He travelled the entire world, hitting almost every country and sailing through the Panama canal in the 1940s. He knows all about huge squalls, and doldrums, and the stink of rotting meat that can't be refrigerated. He knows about boredom and dressing up as women to entertain the other sailors. He knows old songs and he knows how it feels to get a tattoo by a knife and pen ink on a rocking ship. He used to smack me on my arm gently when I was a kid and in his gruff voice he would say, "That's for nothing. Just wait till you do something."

I sit with him and learn everything I can from him to use for my character.

But I have also gone sailing and rode a tall ship myself so I could get the experience.

And yes, I do think my story is better for it.

Obviously, I can't do everything.

I can't be at the World Trade Center during 9/11 (where my story opens up).

I can't travel to a dream world on Jules Vern's Albatross.

But a lot of it I can do, and I do believe it helps.

 

[Russ]

Writing from experience is a rather depressing subject for me, since it typically comes back to "write but nothing will be any good because you're too little"...or that's what I get from it.

The point of suggesting that experiential research can make you a better writer, is to encourage you to experience things, not to discourage you from writing or devalue what you are doing now.

 

[Chessie]

I find a great deal of inspiration and detail in a walk in the woods, a visit to the museum, a good documentary. Harder to brag about, I suppose, but valuable nonetheless.

My absolutely favorite thing in the world is a hike in nature. We live in the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, with forests stretching for miles. A hike is literally out our back door. This is what rejuvenates me and sets my imagination on fire. I've come up with my best story ideas in the woods. All I can think about is what it would be like if our mountain valley was magical in some way, if Baba Yaga lived somewhere in the forest, if bears were twice the size they are in reality, that sort of thing. So thanks for mentioning that, because you don't have to explore caves to write good stories about them (although that would be pretty sweet).

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Also, this. This is all part of it.

My dream has always been to create a high fantasy series so detailed and so believable that one day a fan would put a gun to my head demanding that I give them the location of the portal to it. That has been the guiding principle in all of this since I was about DOTA's age.

I had a headstart on this when I began writing, because I'm insane. I once rode my bike off the roof of my house. It's a lifestyle.

Is it the only life for a writer? No. But I can't recommend it strongly enough. It has been one hell of a ride. I'm better for it, and so is my writing.

And I have to say that my dream is quite different.

I love writing stories full of wrenching emotion, with characters that readers will cry and rage and exult for. That's what I want out of a story and that's what I want to do for someone.

A painstakingly detailed, skillfully crafted world is a great thing. I seriously appreciate seeing an author's experience and research coming to fruition in a story. But in my own writing, it seems...actually sort of extraneous, really. The story isn't about what saddle sore feels like. I didn't write this book to show my readers the parts of a gun. Research is at best spackle holding everything together, filling all the gaps...it's not the foundation.

I will suspend disbelief of just about anything if the characters are compelling, if their story truly ensnares me...that's not a lot of people, it seems, but that's me. Lapses in logic are a problem only in a mediocre story. Characters I care about cover a multitude of sins.

That's me, but...I can't be a solitary case, can I?

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

My absolutely favorite thing in the world is a hike in nature. We live in the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, with forests stretching for miles. A hike is literally out our back door. This is what rejuvenates me and sets my imagination on fire. I've come up with my best story ideas in the woods. All I can think about is what it would be like if our mountain valley was magical in some way, if Baba Yaga lived somewhere in the forest, if bears were twice the size they are in reality, that sort of thing. So thanks for mentioning that, because you don't have to explore caves to write good stories about them (although that would be pretty sweet).

I wish. Living with the wilderness out my back door is literally the dream. (Besides the writing dream.)

 

[Nimue]

I can agree with the idea of magnifying and extrapolating experiences. Instead of trying to encourage people to buy arms and armor and devote their weekends to whacking people with sticks in the woods, I might say to look at your own life with an eagle eye. Sensory detail from cross-country track might be useful for a medieval refugee running from the war. The feelings you have exploring an old relative's attic or a musty bookstore can be compared to an ancient tomb or arcane library. You may not have experienced the heartbreak that comes from a lover's betrayal in times of war, but if you've had someone break up with you... You see where I'm going.

And try little things, too. Read by candlelight. Examine the texture of tapestries in museums. Try to identify herbs or wildlife in the woods. Go to a Renaissance fair. I feel like we often do these things anyway, out of pure enjoyment, but you can glean a great deal of observations from them. Jot them down. The idea of living a bygone or fantastical life can't be completely consummated...so do what you can, and what you want to.

 

[Malik]

I wish. Living with the wilderness out my back door is literally the dream. (Besides the writing dream.)

Go to college in the Northwest. UW and Western Washington University are a short drive from the mountains. You can spend your weekdays studying writing and your weekends kicking around in this:

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

And I have to say that my dream is quite different.

I love writing stories full of wrenching emotion, with characters that readers will cry and rage and exult for. That's what I want out of a story and that's what I want to do for someone.

A painstakingly detailed, skillfully crafted world is a great thing. I seriously appreciate seeing an author's experience and research coming to fruition in a story. But in my own writing, it seems...actually sort of extraneous, really. The story isn't about what saddle sore feels like. I didn't write this book to show my readers the parts of a gun. Research is at best spackle holding everything together, filling all the gaps...it's not the foundation.

I will suspend disbelief of just about anything if the characters are compelling, if their story truly ensnares me...that's not a lot of people, it seems, but that's me. Lapses in logic are a problem only in a mediocre story. Characters I care about cover a multitude of sins.

That's me, but...I can't be a solitary case, can I?

This is why emotional experience is so important to me as opposed to more tangible research.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Go to college in the Northwest. UW and Western Washington University are a short drive from the mountains. You can spend your weekdays studying writing and your weekends kicking around in this:

*Heart eyes*

 

[Chessie]

Those mountains make me melt...