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Main culture/civilization in my novel... feedback welcome

Shockley

Maester
Probably for a medieval fantasy, though the word President is very old, coming from the Latin Praesidens. It's just old enough to give us an old English variant, Praesident.

The old Lombardians elected their leaders prior to actually settling down, if I remember correctly. They referred to their elected leader as the 'Fosite,' which is just a variation on the name of one of the Nordic gods (Forsetti). I'm rather fond of 'Fosite.'

Edit: Also, the idea of an elected kingship is not exactly new. I can't think of any instance where they had a set term, but a lot of major European kingdoms were based on this method for a very long time. If you're insistent on having a revolving kingship, I'd suggest doing something like the Spartans: Have two kings and then have authority oscillate between them depending on what year it is.
 
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Alex97

Troubadour
I king that is elected every two years? I don't think that makes logical sense, as kingship is hereditary.

Also, how long has this league been around? Do the city states often fight one another? Why hasn't the largest of the city states not taken over the smaller ones? I am not asking you to answer them to me, but did you answer these yourself when you created this world?

I like the concept of city-states. I am using them for a portion of my world now. I like them because they are a source of such pride for each citizen as well as much strife for each city state.

What the other guys said about an elected king pretty much sums up my reasons. By the way this king can be continously re-elected.

To answer your questions about the league which I'm probably now going to call the Elessian League because the country is called Elessia requires me to explain a lot of the back line plot which is central to the story. Bear in mind this is still in draft work .

So at the very beggining of time you have a god who is very simmilar to God from the Christian faith (and other faiths). I haven't got a name yet so I will refer to him as God for now. Anyway he creates the universe and the lesser gods who resemble many ancient Greek and Roman gods. God then creates the Averteri, a humanlike race of immortals who are good (no evil in them at all). Their main purpose is to serve the gods. They're also more powerful than your average human

However god think's something is missing so he makes mankind. However he plants a concept in their mind - evil in it's various forms. For hundreds/thousands of years primitive humans, the Averteri and the lesser gods all live in peace. But eventualy some humans turn evil or show evil qualities. One of the gods, Khrone (name may change) who is not considred to be as mighty as the others wants to prove himself so he studdies this concept of evil.

Eventualy Khrone becomes corrupted and believes that he is more powerful than God. He corrupts many of the lesser gods and even tricks some of the good ones by saying god is actualy evil for creating evil. He then tries to corrup the Averteri but fails because they are only capeable of doing good so therefore completely destroys their minds and plants his own will inside them. Their bodies are then warped and become demonlike.

Next he moves onto mankind. Some are corrupted other are not. Those that are not are swiftly enslave. After years of enslavement mankind and the gods the lesser gods that remained loyal to god fight a massive war against Khrone. They win and God imprisons Khrone and his demons under the Northen wastes. He then gives the keys to mankind to look after which are fragments of a star that additionaly grant cool bennefits as well.

Flash foward thousands of years. Mankind are constantly fighting each other and the lesser gods become fearful that the keys will fall into the wrong hands. So they send a message to an Elassian man from one of the city states called Talamon. He is told to unite the city states and recover the keys.

He proceeds to unite the four cities of Lysanda, Derenthia, Tryfan and Nragborsk who then go on a massive conquest in search of the keys (very few no the aim of the conquest; most believe it is to build an empire). He succeeds and takes over most of the known world recovering alll the keys.

After he dies there are about 200 hundred years of peace but then the empire soon starts to fall apart and the the league ends up with it's original lands. Derenthia is the only city that has some land left from the conquest. Consequalty now that the empire had fallen most of the keys were lost as well.

To answer your question about why they are not always fighting, there are a few answers. Firstly they simply have too many other enemies to be fighting eachother. They also all bennefit from the league in some way, whether that be economicaly or be it military protection. The reason Derenthia hasn't invaded Lysanda for example is that they are pretty well matched so they would both face very heavy loses and would be seriously weakned making it difficult to deal with other threats mainly from the North and South.

Hopefully this has answred your questions and sorry for the long post. Feedback on the back story is greatly appreciated but please remember this is an early drafting stage so nothing is set in stone or perfect yet. :)
 
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Queshire

Auror
mrrr..... this is just me, but I really hate it when good and evil are considered quantifiable things. Nobody think's they're evil, no matter what they do, they think that their actions are either justified or neccesary.
 

Mindfire

Istar
So at the very beggining of time you have a god who is very simmilar to God from the Christian faith (and other faiths). I haven't got a name yet so I will refer to him as God for now. Anyway he creates the universe and the lesser gods who resemble many ancient Greek and Roman gods. God then creates the Averteri, a humanlike race of immortals who are good (no evil in them at all). Their main purpose is to serve the gods. They're also more powerful than your average human.

However god think's something is missing so he makes mankind. However he plants a concept in their mind - evil in it's various forms. For hundreds/thousands of years primitive humans, the Averteri and the lesser gods all live in peace. But eventualy some humans turn evil or show evil qualities. One of the gods, Khrone (name may change) who is not considred to be as mighty as the others wants to prove himself so he studdies this concept of evil.

Eventualy Khrone becomes corrupted and believes that he is more powerful than God. He corrupts many of the lesser gods and even tricks some of the good ones by saying god is actualy evil for creating evil. He then tries to corrup the Averteri but fails because they are only capeable of doing good so therefore completely destroys their minds and plants his own will inside them. Their bodies are then warped and become demonlike.

Next he moves onto mankind. Some are corrupted other are not. Those that are not are swiftly enslave. After years of enslavement mankind and the gods the lesser gods that remained loyal to god fight a massive war against Khrone. They win and God imprisons Khrone and his demons under the Northen wastes. He then gives the keys to mankind to look after which are fragments of a star that additionaly grant cool bennefits as well.

So what you're saying is that your omnipotent, vaguely Judeo-Christian Creator-God (who's absolutely nothing like Eru Illuvatar) created lesser gods (NOT the Valar) and angelic spirits (NOT the Maiar) and the universe existed in harmony until Khrone (NOT Melkor/Morgoth) incites a rebellion in which he corrupts other lesser gods (NOT Balrogs) and twists beautiful, perfect beings to his will, causing them to become ugly (NOT Orcs). There is a war between the loyal gods and Khrone (which has nothing in common with the war of the Valar) which ends with Khrone being inprisoned (again, absolutely nothing like Morgoth.)

Seems legit.
 

Alex97

Troubadour
Yes of course, that's kind of what I've failed to explain. Khrone actualy thinks that God is at fault and unfit to rule. He believes that because he dosn't think that humans should have been created with selfish desires, anger... That's why he tries to overthrow God because he dosn't understand that to have good you have to some form evil so that people are tested (for example avoiding temptation). Sorry that's just me failing to explain fully. Another example is when some of the gods who are genuinely good at heart are decieved intot Thinking God is evil. Others are just selfish or have a hatred of God for various justifieble and unjustifieable reasons.

I plan to write the novel with a lot of grey areas between good and evil. It's obvious that Khrone is at fault but he himself does not believe that. My main character Alator despite fighting for the "good guys" is going to do some pretty awful things which will be play on his guilt such as butchering a fairly large ammount of people after a battle.

Another aspect of this gray area is the clash between the Brax and the Elessian league. Their cultureal differences and lack of understanding about eachother mean that both consider the other barbaric or evil as such. In fact when the Brax invade the Elessian league it is only because they are driven out of their homes from the North.

So before Khrone manages to get out of his prison there's already been a lot of fighting between the "good guys who have constantly been butchering eachother. Hopefully that clears thing up a bit just explained the above story like that to condense it a bit - yeah some characters arfe evil, but they don't do it to be evil. Other characters aren't easily identifible as good or evil.

Personaly I don't like really like it either when there is straight on good and evil, it makes the characters very one dimensional as well.
 
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Shockley

Maester
In all fairness, Tolkien didn't exactly create the idea of a fallen figure corrupting others with him, or a war between the gods. Just sayin'. You could say he's working with a fairly standard creation myth (which he is), but I doubt it was Tolkien inspired.
 

Alex97

Troubadour
Thanks for the sarcasm it helps, a lot... :tongue:

Right let me clear thing up a bit. Firstly there are absoloutely no orcs what so ever. The lesser Gods are far closser to Greek gods and take on a far more physical role than the valar. Also the lesser gods being balrogs.. what? One majour difference between Khrone and Melkor is that Khrone is not the chief god in a sense, in fact he is one of the weakest. Melkor was the most powerful because he has a bit of all Illvatar's aspects. Khrone is pretty weak untill he gains a bit of power for himself.

Not once did a mention Orcs, what the Averteri turn into is very different. They're a lor more powerful than orcs and a lot more varried. They have no mind of their own what so ever and resemble the lesser god they are aligned to. Some are sort of demonic, others aren't physical beings, some look like they did before. They all resemble different forms of evil. Plus they are not corrupted in any form because they can't be. He literaly removes the brain and keeps the body, they are not tortured or anything.

The main thing to remember is that the characteristics of both Khrone the Averterti and the lesser gods are different to thosd of Melkor, the Valar and orcs. The valar it seems are more like powerful angels rather than gods. Melkor is basically Lucifer in many senses. Also please remember I am still drafting and there is a lot of changes to be made. I can agree that the story may perhaps be very simular however the gods are not like the valar and there are definately nor orcs, or elves and dwarves for that matter.
 

Mindfire

Istar
In all fairness, Tolkien didn't exactly create the idea of a fallen figure corrupting others with him, or a war between the gods. Just sayin'. You could say he's working with a fairly standard creation myth (which he is), but I doubt it was Tolkien inspired.

Thanks for the sarcasm it helps, a lot... :tongue:

Right let me clear thing up a bit. Firstly there are absoloutely no orcs what so ever. The lesser Gods are far closser to Greek gods and take on a far more physical role than the valar. Also the lesser gods being balrogs.. what? One majour difference between Khrone and Melkor is that Khrone is not the chief god in a sense, in fact he is one of the weakest. Melkor was the most powerful because he has a bit of all Illvatar's aspects. Khrone is pretty weak untill he gains a bit of power for himself.

Not once did a mention Orcs, what the Averteri turn into is very different. They're a lor more powerful than orcs and a lot more varried. They have no mind of their own what so ever and resemble the lesser god they are aligned to. Some are sort of demonic, others aren't physical beings, some look like they did before. They all resemble different forms of evil. Plus they are not corrupted in any form because they can't be. He literaly removes the brain and keeps the body, they are not tortured or anything.

The main thing to remember is that the characteristics of both Khrone the Averterti and the lesser gods are different to thosd of Melkor, the Valar and orcs. The valar it seems are more like powerful angels rather than gods. Melkor is basically Lucifer in many senses. Also please remember I am still drafting and there is a lot of changes to be made. I can agree that the story may perhaps be very simular however the gods are not like the valar and there are definately nor orcs, or elves and dwarves for that matter.

It's very true that Alex97's cosmology is based on a number of creation stories and that Tolkien was not the first to create such a tale. However, Tolkien is the most famous to have done something like this, so subsequent tales that show resemblence to his ideas are very likely to be judged as derivative, even if they're not. I was just trying to point that out. With sarcasm. :D You're going to have to put in a lot of effort to avoid it being labeled a Tolkien clone, even if it isn't one.
 

Alex97

Troubadour
I have to admit I was worried ths story was to simular. I could ditch the actual God figuire in favour for just the lesser gods which would be more or less the Olympian gods. From there on theres a few options. The gods could fight some sort of evil that they themselves didn't create. Problem with that is it might just end up as a clone of Greek mythology which condensed basically is - Gods beat titans. Titans get imprisoned. Titans get out. Smae thing again really.

Alternitively I could just focus on the wars between human cultures which would be ok although it seems lacking in scale, and really powerful swords and artifacts for example just don't seem that important.

So far I'm very happy with the cultures I've created and the way they react and fight with eachother. I'm also happy with the lesser gods at least, which are like the Olympian gods. The main problem is thinking up something origanal that is a greater threat than simply another empire without cloning something! I also like the idea of the keys (or star fragments/stones) because it gives a deeper meaning to why the conquest started and also the role of my most elite group of soldiers which I've failed to mention so far. Still I can see how it is at risk of looking like a copy.
 
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